The NRA-Gun Rights- Finding Solutions

[tcbusch]

Creating Hypothetical scenarios to back ones point of view does not give the point of view any credibility at all.

Lets focus on the facts of the proposed laws.

10 rounds in a clip vs 11 round in a clip.
The "argument" is a killer will kill less.
This does nothing to prevent someone from the mass killing.

Assault rifle ban. This ban will not prevent someone from walking into any business and start shooting to "get even".

Back ground checks are not required if purchasing a gun from family members. The evil in connecticut got his guns from his mother.

These control laws DO NOTHING TO PREVENT MASS KILLINGS.

If anyone thinks these laws will stop the killings they are fools.

Here is a hypothetical scenario for the scenario buffs out there. Lets say the first person that met the evil at the door had a gun and took care of the issue before the killing could start.

We wouldn't even be having this debate if that would have been the case. People would not be mourning the loss of loved ones.

 

[jbaker]

with todays Mass Stabbing in Texas,
I am locking my knives up so they don't hurt anyone..

 

[cmcleod]

Terry No laws won't prevent mass killings, but fewer WILL be killed.

My hypothetical scenerio is no different then others posted.And it really isnt a hypothetical question at all.!! Reality BITES, doesn't it?

Or your saying smaller clips will kill less people. More often then not, yes, but it all depends on the capabilities of the shooter. That is why the bans are in place or they are working on those..


Debates are for offering different outcomes to an issue. To state over and over that guns dont kill people people so leave us gun owners alone AND is obviously one side of the debate and theybelieve the other side is to BAN all guns, which IS not the debate at all if you are listening to the folks in Washington.

MY debateable point is~ looking at how those who are choosing guns can be detered. And that is NOT by stricter gun laws/bans but by addressing those who are commiting the acts. No anti gun person here.


Interestingly enough Terry, with your saying that debating these topics is all a waste of time, then turning and saying lets stick with the facts..LETS STICK with the facts. Lets not put nonsensical comments out there such as you dont see mass killings by knife users...duh, really? points like those make NO sense in a debate on what the issue IS..

background checks are not required in purchaing a gun from a family member. your point being? the shooter in the Sandy Hook shooting didnt buy his weapons from his MOTHER...he took them because she was an IRRESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER WHO KNEW WHO SON WAS MENTALLY ILL AND YET DID NOTHING TO SAFE GUARD SOCIETY NOR HERSELF.!! Most family members who purchase said gun from a family member aren't buying them to go out and KILL. Do you read facts or are you just putting stuff out there? Said person is more likely to steal a family members weapon OR buy one legally or illegally if the purpose is for evil acts.

cathleen

 

[jclazar]

Steven, Please don't think I would feel compelled to lie by saying that I walked into my local gun shop and purchased a Armalite M16 .223 cal . when the Towers fell in New York. We have different gun laws here in Ohio. A gun like mine WAS SEMI-AUTO. I can walk right on down this instant and buy another m16 should I choose. Just not a big fan of New York thinking period.

Thanks guys , !

 

[jclazar]

Cathleen, How much do we see on t.v of gun violence? Every day I see cops with guns shooting down the bad guys. Also, what about the gun violence our kids are viewing when playing video games?

Ya know, something more can be done to promote safe gun responsibility, instead of the gun owner's rights taking on the full responsibility of the gun control measure.

Thank you, John

 

[cmcleod]

John, I was shocked that someone would inform you that you were incorrect, that you couldnt have owned a M16!! Thanks for pointing out the facts that there are differing laws in each state.

Personally I do not believe it is right to place the brunt of the blame on " responsible' gun owners. I know that our political majority feels the same way and will do little to enact laws to take away the foundations of gun ownership in this country. However IF specific guns are banned, does that really leave the gun owner in distress and unable to defend himself? if gun activist/owners want to be honest..brutally honest..they would say NO.

The sheer panic that emerged after the Twin Towers and that mindset to heavily arm oneself against the perpetrators and a home invasion OR worse) has transmuted further with panic and fear with the passing of the new milenium when those who didnt know better thought with the striking of midnight, the world would be catapulted into chaos and ruin, we somehow lived thru that, and then we had the doomsday scenerio of the end of the world in December of last year. All this has lead to much different mindsets about gun ownership.

The brave new world we live in today has brought us to the peak of violence. Because guns have been the weapon of choice the media and entertainment industries have chosen to glorify and so many are impressionable by what they see/expereince. An unstable person can NOT choose between what IS and what Isn't real at times, at other times, it is imposibble for them to seperate reality from fiction. FACT. it has effected society as a whole in ways so many didnt think or dont think now is possible.

John, You are so on point as to the saturation of violence in our society. What IS presented to society is a huge elephant in the room that everyone seems to overlook. I know that Marlin and I have talked about this countless time. AND because it IS presented to society as guns as the weapons of choice, of course, guns come into play now as needing controls. Gun violence IS everywhere. Those who are mentally unstable can find hidden messages in being exposed to these outlets. Young minds are very impressionable. Its not just the video games, and to a huge point, TV and movies but also it's in the music as well/re: Rap music. Its also in the abuse/violence in the home. A child who is repeatedly beaten, sexually abused can manifest instability and raging anger that has to have a release valve at some point. Whether it is self inflicted or one chooses to make others pay, there is always a result.( cause and effect).

it IS the responsibilty of the parents to monitor what comes into their homes. Parents ARE failing their charges. If we can't count on adults to nurture and offer sensible guidance, the future holds what so many watch in movie theaters now. Those doomsday ' scenerios'. Parents giving up their resonsibility creates a huge debt on society as a whole, and society as a whole has dropped the ball too. That mindset is if it doesnt affect me personally, I'm not going to worry about it. Its someone elses problem. Till we become the tragic victim, or someone we love does.

There has been a deafening Silence in regards to the loss of lives and those left behind to move forward after Sandy Hook and Aurora Colorada, and for each loss of life from gun violence. Why? That IS not relevant?

Gun owners feel they are the victims. They are paying the price for the hideous acts of a few. But its NOT just about Sandy Hook, or Aurora Colorado but in truth it is about each life taken thru violence and because guns have been the weapon of choice to glorify, it is also now being the weapon to villify. Rightfully so, as it is society as a whole that has created this monster.

That does NOT make responsible gun owners the bad guys. There is a delicate balance that needs to be met.

I know I am NOT the only member of this forum who has personally lost family members and close friends to gun violence . I am sure that I am NOT the only one who has been threatened for my life with a gun . I am sure I am not the only one who believes in the 2nd Ammendment but also chooses to believe that some limitations need to be enacted( heightened background checks-proper storage of weapons/ban on military weapons ) to protect society as a whole, and for gun owners to NOT view it as an all emcompassing ban on their rights.

Cathleen

 

[bjamison]

Charlie - none of my business, but should this thread be moved to the garage so everyone can freely speak their mind and not have to use spell check either...

 

[kshultz]

Bill,
I second that. I can't believe the

that's being said and it's drivin' me

bananas!

 

[digger]

Personally, I find the who topic boring and esoterical!
The problem is not in the streets or with weapons in general.

The PROBLEM is piss poor parenting skills or lack there of at home!
Also the lack of respect for parents and the lack of intelligence of said parents in not taking control and or being allowed by some stupid a$$ed laws that prevent them from taking the kid behind the barn and blistering his or her A$$!

Those you that are 50+, think back, did ya ever talk back? Did ya ever even remotely think about calling the cops when your folks blistered your a$$ for doing wrong? Did you ever think about killing anyone at anytime for anything?

I DIDN'T THINK SO!!!!!!!

If you folks want to light up the Garage, go for it.
I ain't moving anything anywhere. IMO, I'd rather leave things posted as they are to show others what the problem is and what not to do to solve it!

The day they took corporal punishment out of the school systems is when this country went to hell!

Nothin like headin to the bathroom, told to bend over and grab your family jewels and gettin a swift swat on the ass to make you think about not doing what you did to get in trouble in the first place!

THEN, having to go home and face the old man, cause you knew it was gonna happen again!!!!

You all can debate this crap all you want, it will change nothing, UNTIL things go back they way they were 40+ years ago!

 

[aschumacher]

Yup, you got it right Charlie.

to all the little brats!

 

[sgalante]

John,
I didn't call you a liar, what I was referring to was exactly what an M16 is. Let's look at the definition of an M16.
The M16 rifle, officially designated Rifle, Caliber 5.56 mm, M16, is the United States military version of the AR-15 rifle. The rifle was adapted for semi-automatic, three-round burst, and full-automatic fire.
}
I was referring to the fact that the M16 is a miltary rifle (burst mode and full automatic) that civilians haven't been allowed to purchase in ANY state without an FFL3 license for at least 18 years.

Cathleen, when I mentioned burst, I was talking about your statement "If the attacker is using a semi-auto with smaller clips, first they dont have the capability of burst power and second, it does take seconds to change clips..." Who is it that has these guns with the capability of burst power legally? How many people actually have true automatic weapons? The reason I was questioning your differentiation about Assault Weapons (how I hate that term) was that on your reply to me on 4/5 @ 1:09 you answered: "Stephen you asked me about what weapons I meant as not being needed and I said military assault weapons which were never meant to be purchased or used by the civilian gun owner however they ARE avaiable, both legally and illegally." Again, I point to the fact that no-one will ever stop illegal guns, but how many poeple have these "Military" (i.e. fully automatic) weapons "legally". Not too many (see my reference to a true M16.) I'm off my soapbox. I'll stick to my diesel cub.

 

[jclazar]

Charlie, Yes, you are spot on. Use to be when I was in school, you would get your name wrote on the principal's paddle. Next time you were in the office, you got paddled! Lol, I remember well going out to the woods to get my own switch. Talking with my boss at work today, who is a active church member, he said back in the 50's through the 70's we never had the horrific crime we do these days.

 

[jclazar]

Stephen, No harm, no foul! I do know quite a bit about that weapon, actually! Maybe more than most people? In the state of Ohio, it is perfectly legal at the present moment to own a semi automatic m16. You had your serious doubt that I could have owned one, so I politely wanted you to know that what is good for the goose is not always so for the gander.

 

[jclazar]

Thank you much Cathleen! And I thank you for taking the time to reply, I respect your points of view! Yes, we need more than a few changes in the gun policies today. We could free up much needed monies by not keeping around for years upon years these killers in prison to start with.

 

[digger]

Anyone that REALLY wants to know about weapons, come on up.
I'm sure you can find something of interest to play with.
Browning 50 cal.
Barrett M82
A true, tried and tested in country, M16, that has been in my possession since 1971, and will stay that way until the day I die!!!!!!!

 

[wshytle]

I agree Charlie...boring but that's because most are simply barking up the wrong tree and that's all across the country.

I mentioned earlier how we had loaded guns in the house all of the time but because we knew what real punishment was the guns were left alone. My mom use to use the wire end of a flyswatter and my father wore the most painful belts. I also remember being in gym class and the paddle my PE teacher had and used. It was just the way things were at the time.

Also, which parent would be most likely to be "into" guns??? And what role does the father play in todays family (when there is a father)??? I think that sort of spells the whole thing out right there. And finally, what role has the country played in this thing called family in the last 40+ years??? There's no wonder to me why we're having this discussion and it's downright depressing.

 

[tcbusch]

Crap Charlie!! you should have said something yesterday!!

 

[mgwin]

Charlie,

I'm not coming up there, it's too dang cold and snowy for me. I'll just stay here and play with my cubs in the garden. I've done got into the spring mode now. I'm also having to get used to upper 80's after having highs in the upper 40's last week. I would like to come up next fall before all those feet of snow come and check out those nice cannons.

Speaking of guns, it's turkey season Saturday!

 

[bjamison]

Charlie P said, "esoterical"

None of my business, but do we really need those kind of adult words on this forum...

JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aaytay]

I vote Bills last post as the best post of this entire thread. HANDS DOWN!