The NRA-Gun Rights- Finding Solutions

[wshytle]

I'm not making light of the terrible tragedy at Sandy Hook but what if Lanzas mother collected knives?????

I still say the only way to correct the problem is proper defense using GUNS! Activist are never going to shut up even if all guns are made illegal. They'll just move on to something else to invade our personal rights. The saddest thing is they don't really know what they're doing and what the end result will ultimately be. That is loss of our freedom. They constantly bark up the wrong tree with ample support.

 

[cmcleod]

Hi Marty. thanks for sharing.

I'm sensing the reasoning why some states are choosing to ban large capacity magazines and others have restrictions on them is so those being assaulted might have a greater chance of surviving an assault. If the attacker is using a semi-auto with smaller clips, first they dont have the capability of burst power and second, it does take seconds to change clips, but seconds can save lives. I don't know if all semi-automatics were banned in Connecticut and New York? or what magaizines were banned in New York. I read in the paper that in Conneticut that magazines will be grandfathered in as of January 2014, but the person can only hold 7 rounds in the clip, regardless of the size of the clip.

Even though the semi-automatics and automatic's are are smaller percentages of firearms used in murders, their usage has increased rapidly over the past few years and it has become effortless for anyone to get their hands on these weapons, Legally and illegally. I believe that is why the lawmakers are implimenting these laws. No it isn't fair to responsible hunters and gun owners or collectors, but as what each individual does it life, it does affect the whole, as is evident in what is coming to fruitation with the tightening of gun laws that are being enacted in the present.

The majority of murders murders derive from personal relatoinships/the increasing nature of crimes attached with guns being the weapon of choice. By implementing background checks, that can be benficial in keeping guns away from those with a criminal past /domestic abuse and those with mental health issues ( to a certain extent). yet, if someone has murder on their agenda, they will find the weapon they need to fulfil their need, whatever that is.

I read that in Conneticut that the denial of a certifcate to purchase a firearm, ammunition after having a background check run, due to mental health issues is kept confidential and not available to the public, but only to crime fighteing personell.


I so agree with you Marty on the mother of the young man in Newtown who commited the assault at Sandy Hook Elementary was NOT responsible as a gun owner. I have mentioned that as well, as I felt it was important. Hopefully our sharing this will get others being conscious of their safety practices, or if they know someone who isn't be safe with their weapons, they need to respectfully point it out to them and offer some suggetions ( being part of the solution)
Also I feel if we know someone who IS unstable and are acting out and we are concerned about the welfare of others, that we consider taking come kind of action to detour a tragedy. As with getting a troubled person HELP, as needed.

Cathleen

 

[aschumacher]

I,ve been careful and just reading here...but on large round clips...in Viet Nam guys taped two clips together and flipped them in a second. 10 round clips can be glued together and flipped in a second. The world is kinda screwed when it comes to controlling large magazines!

 

[fcurrier]

Allen: Ban on Duct Tape next on list.

 

[jclazar]

Looks like the guns sales are soaring high in Maryland! You really believe the NRA sells more guns than President Obama? Hahah! lol!

I personally don't believe I need a m16. I bought one of those new when the Towers fell in New York. All I did was look at a expensive piece of equipment most of the time. I also made note my gun was not all that safe for my neighbors should I need to defend myself against a home invasion.

I took my gun back to the gun store where I bought it from, and bought a auto 12 gage that I have much more fun with. Because of my religious beliefs, there is nothing of this world that would ever make me hurt other people with a gun, plain and simple. You could have a perfect, law abiding citizen just one day snap-go off the hook, and use a weapon to kill. I believe you would see more of what I just said, if the media were fair and truthful, its ALWAYS one side you hear.

The PA Amish school shooting a few years ago, and the Chardon school shooting have been close to home, and We all feel something needs to be done.

 

[kshultz]

John, honestly...... if you were in a situation that a mad man with a gun or knife or whatever was threating your life or your loved one's life you would choose death insead of defending yoursef??? Paaleease! I think that's balony!

 

[mgwin]

Shultzie,

I think John meant he would not hurt anyone for no good reason, and only in self defense.
John brought up a good point.
Using a high powered rifle of any kind should not be the weapon of choice in a close neighborhood, or apartment complex. You would wind up possibly shooting several innocent people. We were taught in concealed carry class to take into consideration what was on the other side of the criminal before shooting. Also take into consideration what type of weapon you are using.
You just can't pull out your gun and start shooting.
You may get into more trouble than you were trying to get out of. Shoot a bystander unintentionally (by accident), and you will be liable!
I urge anyone to take a concealed carry class, even if you do not want to carry one. The training and information would be good for everyone to know.

 

[cmcleod]

John, great point on the dangers of using a weapon that wasn't designed for personal defense to be dangerous in inproper settings. Im sure most would agree that the news is far from being trustworthy or honest.

( thinking about all the rumble about the conspiracy that the government was buying all the ammo, when it is really about supply and demand by gun users.) Yet it was the media tht spun the threads about conspiracy by the government.!! the media has caused a lot of confusion too about assault weapons, what is and what isn't. I read an article in the paper how difficult it is for stores to keep ammo supplies available as spikes are hitting again after the gun laws in Conneticut were enacted a few days ago. That set off a firestorm of panic again, and people across the country are going out and stockpiling, fearing their state will follow suit. One store requires any buyer to take a number to purchase ammo and when it runs out..you're out of luck. Also one manufacturer is running 24/7 and even police departments across the nation aren't able to buy their ammo supplies.!!

Marty,it was so important what you shared about NOT pulling out ones gun when confronted in certain situations. I read an article after the Aurora, Colorado shooting at the movie threater and those who can carry concealed weapons said even if they would have had the use of their weapons that day, they would not have used them, for the very reasons you mention. They would have more then likely killed or wounded more people in trying to defend themselves/ stopping the attacker.

We can all sit around and say we'd do this or that if this or that happened, but in reality, we don't know the dynamics of what could/ would happen and how we would respond. We don't know that till the moment something happens. We can plan to be prepared..buttttt.! I'm sure you've all had life experiences you can remember that you thought you would do one thing, but did another when it happened.? I sure have and it shook me to my core. ( refering to the incident that happened in 1984) and I have had other traumatic situations as well.

Cathleen

 

[lhinds]

I think we are working on the wrong end of the problem when we blame crime on the weapons.I feel a deterent to crime and justice in the court system would help more.

 

[kshultz]

Marty/John,
That would make sense. My apologizes.

 

[mgwin]

Cathleen,

If I were in that theater, and everyone between the shooter and I were ducking, and he wasn't ducking, I probably would have tried to end his plans. But, that is a lot of if's. Another problem is; in our state you cannot (legally) carry a concealed weapon into a place where you have to pay to get in.
I kind of disagree with that law, because a criminal don't give a hoot whether he is allowed to bring in a gun or not. He is going to bring his anyway!

Another thing I definitely disagree with is; I hear this hearing/trial is going to be drawn out for over a year, costing the taxpayers (you & me) no telling what, probably millions. For crying out loud!!!

They caught the sucker red handed, why is there even a trial??? Is the judicial system that STUPID??? What a joke!

 

[cmcleod]

Marty,I understand what you're saying about responding if the situation was right but yeah, its all those what IF's

It is NUTS

all the time and money that will be wasted on the trial. He has already wanted to plead guilty, but they won't allow him to do so. BUT the DA's office is refusing to accept that plea deal because they are going for the death penalty, which they can't use if he pleads guilty. I wouldnt think he would then ask for an appeal after he's found guilt of murder? or is that automatic due to " equal rights? Since he's pled guilty and they know he is without a doubt, accept that, and call up the death penalty and then do what needs to be doneDo not pass go and go to jail. His act was pure evil, hence he should be handed a sentence that justifies his crime and allows the familys and friends of the victims, both who passed and who's lives have forever been changed to release that chapter in their live,

Cathleen

 

[sgalante]

John Lazar, I am pretty sure you did not buy an M16, as those are pretty much illegal to own unless you have a FFL3 license, which are not easy to get. An M16 is a fully automatic rifle.

I don't see a need personally for me to own an AR15, I don't do that kind of shooting for sport, plus in Upstate NY, it isn't even legal to hunt deer with it, since it doens't have enough knockdown power for that type of hunting. If I did own one, it wouldn't be the weapon I would use for a home invasion. My H&K pistol would be my weapon of choice. Much better stopping power also.

Cathleen, to answer your question about NY State laws on about what you can and cannot own. The new law states that if you owned an AR15 (or what the anti-gun people like to call an Assault Weapon, although in many cases, is just my fathers hunting rifle with a plastic stock and pistol grip) prior to 1/15/2013, you are allowed to still own it, but it must be registered with the state every 5 years. As of 4/15/2014, you can no longer own a magazine for ANY gun that holds more than 10 rounds. You can only load 7 bullets, (they haven't even decided if that means total or in the magazine.) My 15 round magazine (what my gun and it's grip were designed to hold), have to be sold (out of state) or turned in to the state by 4/15/2014. As for your reply to my post before, you said in a previous thread that you were able to differentiate between semi and fully automatic rifles, which was the reason for me to comment about your sentance about guns, "which honestly were NEVER designed for the common man to own or use..." I made that comment, because 99.999% of gun owners, cannot or do not own a fully automatic rifle. I'm not sure what you meant by "burst power" in one of your posts below. Since semiautomatics don't have any other mode but pull trigger, pull trigger, pull trigger...
I'm not trying to pick on anyone in particular, but I just like to get/give clarification where I feel it is needed.

 

[tcbusch]

This whole debate is silly.

Locally a woman drowned her two kids and killed herself.

A month earlier a man drove to his ex-wife's house and killed his three daughters by a knife.

These mass killings are no different than what the others are doing with guns. No one is talking about outlawing bathtubs or knives.

We keep talking about the guns as the problem and lose site of the evil behind the weapon and what this person is trying to accomplish.

Limiting a magazine to 10 rounds? That ridiculous.

Unless a weapon can discharge itself like a bomb or mortar, or is dangerous to the person using it, I should be able to buy what I want.

and,

If someone is bent on killing a bunch of people to get there name in lights, thats what they are going to do. We should all be prepared in case we meet this person on when they are fulfilling what they believe is their destiny.

 

[cmcleod]

Terry B ~ Your response to they aren't outlawing bathtubs or knives was SILLY. To compare the tragic deaths of children murdered by parents who didnt use guns was for what purpose exactly ??? Really? I mean Really. FYI{ Its a known fact that in society women will normally choose a less violent way of killing their young ( drowning, drug overdoes,etc) where as fathers typically do shoot their young, as they feel it is painless and quick. it isn't typical. Normally though, when a father kills his young, its a "get even " scenerio with the mother of those children and in those cases they will be more violent.( stabbing-poisoning)

Terry, you stated you should be able to buy what YOU Want. I assume you will be sensible and legal in what you do own? So for the sake of an argument, lets say that I have a neighbor and he has a right to own what ever weapons he wants, and he has chosen to use fully automatic weapons. Now, lets just say it is known this neighbor has a drinkin problem and a short fuse. So, he has a right to arm himself...so what are my rights of protection? To arm myself against him? or wing it and say a little prayer he won't go off? just a thought...pondering it all.

This topic of converation has been about solutions which have been few and far between, and the topic of converstation continues..but arguing with " people kill people, guns dont kill people" which is TRUE and I have a right to own what I want, and no one is gonna tell me what I can and cannot do ego-laden if one isn't responsible. ( many aren't but think they are)

Alcoholism and drug addiction bring out the beast in men, and create great evils in this world.The Native People of this land refer to those who commit such greivous crimes, murder, as walk away souls. if one has a conscioussness and soul, they cann't harm another human being. Only when the soul walks away and leaves a person DEAD inside can a person kill. We refer to this as mental illness. many things bring these illness's into being. Abuse as children, Alcoholism, Drugs. PST as the result of violent acts being committed or forced to be done to oneself or others. Time and time again we read about someone murdering someone, not always by a gun, and mental illness comes into play. Many times the person was NOT able to get the help they needed, even though it was sought. This is were the broken wings need to begin the process of being mended. Mental illness is on the back burner, those in power wanting to not hear what IS, to ignore the great need for assistence for those who need it.. yet until we as a society can bring some sense of sensibility and wellness to these diseases, violence will continue to soar, and unfortunatly, guns as the weapon of choice will be the force to be reckoned with..so no guns dont kill, but until these diseases are addressed and solutions found, we have to accept guns as the method of choice by those who desire to inflict pain.

In some states they are charging a tax on all weapons sold, which goes into a fund to assist with mental health counciling for those who need it and also other programs to help those who have been the victims of violent crimes where guns were used. Is this fair? Is this a good place to begin? To say I as a gun owner am willing to say, I will be responsible with my ownership and I dont feel I am getting SCREWED because I am being charged $25.00 more when I purchase a weapon.?


Point to Washington and the government is taking away our rights. Nationally, little will come out of debates on banning assault- style weapons.( the media has done a fine job of confusing those who don't know about weapons , stating that anything with a clip as an assault weapon) NO its not. Heightened background checks might survive, yet everyone is complaining about equal rights. This country was founded on the 2nd amendment and I really doubt the legislators are willing to mess with history. State to state the laws are changing and it has everyone up in arms,( so to speak) the pressure is on to do something in light of the increased violence with guns as the weapon of choice.

One thing that I don't understand. For personal use of a clip, why does anyone need a clip that holds MORE then ten rounds? It seems that the clip size ban is what has everyone riled and as has been pointed out here a clip is exchanged in a mere few seconds, so WHY all the upset? Why do you NEED a clip with more then ten rounds?Respectfully asking. Please dont come back with nasty rants.

Stephen you asked me about what weapons I meant as not being needed and I said military assault weapons which were never meant to be purchased or used by the civilian gun owner.however they ARE avaiable, both legally and illegally.

You asked me about Burst? In reference to how an automatic fires,refered to as " burst".. a semi -auto matic needs trigger/finger action for each shot off..BURST is not engaging the trigger PER each shot fired, hence called " burst".

Cathleen

 

[digger]

Here's a solution!

The weapon of choice,

 

[cmcleod]

Digger..oh yes..

and then there is always the problem solver.

Sittin there with his hand on his knee, pondering ~thinking,

oh WTF...

just do IT.!!

the black book IS to help us against our enemies..

just pick it up and USE IT...What ever edition you have..

Cathleen

 

[cmcleod]

 

[bjamison]

Quick question - was the box under the seat of the 1x6 tractors put there by IH for handgun storage? Cause when they moved the battery from under the hood to under the seat on the later designs, they obliterated that potential storage.

Would more people have died over the years from handguns jiggling around under the seat of an IHCC than all those smokes that were lit with the IHCC optional cigarette lighter on the dash while working the tractor?????

What if a crook were to try to steal the snowthrower while you were trying to work a blizzard and you couldn't get to the gun under the seat because the cab was too restrictive and it was dark outside. Makes me wonder if IH should have put a big patch of velcro on the hump of the tractor to attach a holster (with pistol) - just in case. You couldn't put it on the hood, because you might want one of the optional IH radios up there and besides if you slam the hood down with a handgun attached to it, you it might fire-off or worse, cause the holster with pistol in it to fall off in the mud or wet grass or snow - if you are plowing or blowing.

If you had a concealed carry permit, you could velcro your handgun under the cover over the hump, whereas with a NF, you'd have to stop and crawl-up under the tractor to get the handgun out from under the hump - which I guess is why IH put a box under the seat for it in the first place.

What I'd really like is for the do-gooder's to leave the law obider's alone and mind their own business. Perhaps they could find an IH Cub Cadet (or even another color tractor) to keep themselves occupied.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Bill J. Even Fancy is thinking about your post.

And to think ALL of this started because the Native American Indians didn't have good enough immigration laws established. CLICK HERE