Archive through August 21, 2010

[mgonitzke]

Dennis-

I'm pretty sure it's open center. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be, as the valve is original to the KW loader. It doesn't whine much if at all. It makes a little noise when you continue to hold the lever after the cylinder has reached the end of it's travel.

 

[digger]

Matt G.
I hate to ask, did ya check the pump doing the electric drill thing and a 5 gallon bucket before you installed it?
Mine zings the boom up really fast. Aaron says it's about twice as fast as his Johnson, and I thought it was pretty quick.

 

[dfrisk]

MATT - Charlie gave me another thought. Most hyd. pumps are sensitive to direction of rotation. If you can still do Charlie's suggestion, you might try running the drill in reverse also.

 

[ljerickson]

Matt,

The suction line is really critical. After all, the pump is basically gravity fed on these. A really tight pump might pull a vacuum, but I wouldn't count on it for much.

The stock KW setup has a suction hose clamped over a 1/2" nipple with a spiral hose clamp, probably 7/8" ID. The nominal pressures on this hose typically run between a atmospheric a 3-4 psi vacuum. You don't need a hydraulic quality hose on this, but for safety sake it should be good for 100 psi and not collapse under vacuum. Sprayer hose might do the trick.

The most strategic place to place the filter is the line between the valve and the storage tank.

In the suction line the filter will produce pressure drop that can't be sustained by gravity feed. Every bit of pressure drop is important here. Not only that, the filter can house an air bubble that really messes things up.

Anyway, try these two things. I think your major problem will go away.

Lee

 

[mgerecke]

Charlie and Harry,
Thanks for the suggestions on my lift handle movement. I am not able to work on it for a couple days being that it is at me Moms house. I hope it is something easy.
Thanks, Mark

 

[kshultz]

What is up with this! I thought I would never own a red Cub Cadet!

Now look at me! I heard of yellow fever but never red fever.
Well here it is......look what followed me home.
Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[sblunier]

Matt,

Screw your relief valve on the pump all the way in (clockwise = "in" = higher relief pressure) and then adjust the one on the valve by turning it "in" until you get ~1200-1500# with a deadheaded cylinder. It is very likely that one of your relief valves is opening and dumping all of your oil. BTW, I've never really heard of a relief right on the pump, most are incorporated into the valve. I assume it's an internal bypass that dumps off to the suction side within the pump body.....you don't want that opening at the pump....Let the valve relief in the valve body do it's thing.

On an open center system like your loader, (as Denny said), the oil will always circulate in a continous loop (making heat as it does). it will do this until the valve redirects it against a cylinder, where it holds the oil "captive" and forces extension/retraction...UNTIL the cylinder reaches the end, then the pump dead heads, unless there is a relief valve to dump off the dead headed oil back to the tank. If one or both of the releifs is set too low, it will open and dump off before any usefull work can be done.

It is probably opening at about the same psi as it takes to raise the empty bucket, bypassing about 1/2 of the oil and moving the cylinders with the rest, and dumping ALL under any load.

Run the relief screw in on the pump and play with the one on the valve.

It is also possible, but not likely, you have a broken relief spring OR a blocked relief valve seat (holding it open). These would be mechanical failures that would not be able to be "adjusted out". Backing both reliefs all the way out (but not out of the valve body, one at a time until the loader will not move at all) with the pump running MAY clear a blocked seat by allowing the debris to pass. Otherwise, taking them apart, checking the seat and spring and reassembling is in order.

If the oil gets warm, the pump is moving it.....you just can't get up enough pressure to do anything with it!!!

A KW loader should easily lift 400# or more at partial throttle, both of mine have.

Also, don't rule out reverse pump rotation, however, gear pumps usually work in some fashion, even is reverse rotated, and many are bi-directional.

 

[sblunier]

Kent,

Nice "9"!!! You won't be sorry you got that one, they are very nice machines, and the SGT.....well, you won't want to go back...

 

[sblunier]

Norm,

Glad to hear you are pleased with the M18 and that it runs well. Nice clean engine compartment!!!

 

[mgonitzke]

Steve et al.-

I will play with the relief valves tomorrow. The pump has a decal on it that explains the correct direction of operation (CW from shaft end of pump) and it is set up to turn the proper direction on the tractor. It worked on the 124 it used to be on, but like I said...really slow. If the relief valves don't do it, I'll put the filter on the return line, and give you guys an update tomorrow. Thanks for all the info, I really appreciate it!

 

[sblunier]

Matt,

FWIW, you don't need restrictors in the hoses....that could be part of the speed issue. It doesn't matter if the restrictor is in the "up" or "down" line on the cylinder, it restricts the same, and isn't necessary for a CC loader application.

 

[tstewart]

Harry, Matt, Dennis thanks for the comments.

I dont have any close ups of the Xtreme lower hitch but its the one in the second picture on Aarons website http://www.xtrememotorworks.com/Parts%20Catalog/Parts%20Pages/CC-29-010.htm
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

By Dennis Frisk (Dfrisk) on Saturday, August 21, 2010 - 03:40 pm:

Tristan - I'm surprised your trailer weighs that much empty, but it sounds like you've weighed it before. Depending on size your estimate of the six straw bales is probably pretty close, I'd say 300# is correct. We'll take your word about the weight of the passengers.

If your Extreme hitch has the ears that extend up to catch one of the rear axle carrier bolts on each side you shouldn't have any hitch issues. Even the tractor pulling hitches MWSC makes & sells only pick up the seven small capscrews on the rear cover and they handle a LOT more HP & force than your 1000 is capable of. Don't think you'll pull the back off your rearend.

FOLLOW Harry's advice and stay away from hills, either going UP or going down. Your trailer outweighs your towing vehicle by about THREE times. Even with lugged tires & weights if you spin-out going up OR down hill it can get ugly real fast. And when towing off your sleeve hitch be real careful how your cargo is distributed, with high hitch weight your tractor's frt end will get very light, especially going up-hills, possibly even off the ground. But not having enough hitch weight will cause drive tire slippage and possible loss of control on steep hills.

I supplied tractors & hay racks for several hay rides when I was growing up on the farm. Not a bad idea to run a safety chain from the trailer frame to something "Structural" on the tractor that's separate from your hitch. Say maybe thread the chain inside the frame around an axle carrier. Chain bolted together is always better than relying on the hooks to stay attached even if safety-wired. Chain should have a tensile strength of at least what the trailer's gross weight is.

Last summer I hauled a LOT of 2500 to 3000+ pound trailer loads of dirt & rock with my 982 pulling off my Cat. O 3-pt to sleeve hitch adapter. I had the frt end airborn many times even with the 50" deck attached. Not sure my 120# of frt end weights would have kept it down. But I was going slow on dry concrete for only short distances.

On fairly level ground with good traction conditions, meaning NO wet grass or weeds, preferably dry packed dirt, you should be able to pull a 2500@ trailer without a problem.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

I'm not sure about the cat 0 hitches but would imagine they are more secure than the IH hitches even with the custom lower.

Yeah its a heavy built home-made trailer. The smallest you'll find on it is 3x3 angle and larger. I didn't weigh it myself but he said he weighed it (as required per Ohio registration) and it was 1410 or something like that. Its got a 3500# axle and the fellow that made it says it could take a bigger one yet.

I've had it loaded up to probably the same with firewood, but I'm just going from the backyard to the front yard and not hauling live cargo. No big hills to worry about and I know it takes a little longer stopping distance.

I was kind of worried about the tongue weight, but I guess if you were putting front tires in the air then I think I got room to go yet, at least I haven't experienced that yet, with firewood at least.

Due to all the rain yesterday and since its still nothing but fog so far today, I bet the grass is still going to be wet and I might scrub the hayride this time... I'll see a bit later.

Kent... wish I had that 982 would probably end my worries!

 

[dfrisk]

TRISTAN - The lower draft arms on an SGT's 3-pt bolt onto the bottom rear three capscrews of each axle carrier. The top link really doesn't get much if any pulling load unless the implement hooked to the 3-pt is fairly long.
Not sure what the CC's sleeve hitch is rated at for load, guess it's whatever the operator can lift with the manual lift lever or the add-on hyd. or on-board hyd. systems. My 982 manual says rated lift for the Cat.O is 400# 12 inches behind the centers of the lower arm rear connections. My cart hooks about 3 to 4" behind those connections so I must be exceeding the weight rating a little bit to get the frt wheels airborn. ;-)

KENT - Nice looking 982. You need to get some AG tires on the back! I've put a bit over 50 hours on mine mowing this summer, I like it more and more every time I run it. But still not a big fan of the Onan engine. The guys with their little green tractors are having governor problems on their Onan's and My 982 has all the symptoms. Sounds like the FIX requires extensive disassembly and a new camshaft.

 

[rtunison]

149 refurb. Check out the trunion area. Looks brand new because the springs NEVER were inside the slot.
I'll bet the PO had a jerky ride for the entire time he owned it!! Anyone ever seen this?

Why use washers when a couple of eye bolts will do.

 

[dtanner]

Hydro pumps realy take a beating with heat and I see a lot on here that are in need of a good cleaning.They must be tuf to stand all the heat and not quit.I know all mine have had a bath and they were all real dirty.

I`am on shop clean up and its so bad I have to move everything out side and then sweep lol.Good thing this shop is only 28'x30'!

 

[anixon]

hello
kohler k241 what should the compression be on a k241. my has 30lbs. i was just wordering if the motor is lacking compression.
thanks
al

 

[dfrisk]

ALLEN - A compression check on a K241 probably isn't the best test of engine condition. Most K241's have automatic compression release, "ACR" and according to the Kohler manual they should have the compresssion test done when turning the engine over backwards so the finger on the exh. lobe of the camshaft doesn't pop the exh. valve open early.

The Kohler manual shows a crankcase vacuum test with a home-made "U-tube manometer" which is a better test of ring & valve condition.

The other signs of engine condition are exh. smoke, oil consumption, excessive oil leaking from too high of crankcase pressure because of blow-by past the rings.

From what I've seen here most compression checks show 30 to 60 PSI on the compression test. But too many variables are involved to say what's good and what isn't.

 

[tmarkle]

Denny,
I agree with you on the Onans. I had a 982 about 2 yrs ago. When I got it I gave it a good thorough tune up but I could never get the governor to work the way I wanted. I even had a copy of the factory Onan manual. It just didn't seem to have the adjustability that a kohler does. I ended up trading it for my 882 diesel and never looked back.

 

[dfrisk]

TODD - Kentucky KEN & I discussed Onan's here several months ago. They're common on portable welder generators. I can't believe they can't hold their RPM.
The green tractor guys (they used a LOT of Onan's) have had the plastic or nylon finger wheel that spins the ball bearings in the governor between a tapered & flat disc spin on the smooth machined diameter when they get warm. The balls fly out, the discs separate....the tapered disc is attached to a rod or ??? and controls the throttle valve. But if the wheel slips on the camshaft it tends to speed the engine up and won't throttle the engine down when the load is reduced.

I've nursed my 982 all summer with this problem, years before it would just lug down if increased load was gradually applied, but when I tapped the throttle lever up it would BARK for an instant and rev right up to speed. Supposely the fix is a new camshaft AND a new timing gear for the crankshaft since it's supposed to be matched to the camshaft gear.

Think My fix will be a repower. Not sure what with yet. Maybe something like a C123 from an old Farmall?

 

[anixon]

ok thanks dennis