2084: This is a bad starter, right?

[taylorbirkey]

Did a bunch of work over the weekend with my 2084. At the very end of the day I went to put it in the shed (it had been sitting off for 30 minutes) and heard what sounded like a small electrical short under the hood. All that would happen after that was the starter solenoid would click rapid-fire.

Assembly looks original to me.

I tested the voltage off the battery and also at the signal and and the wires are all good. So I jumped the posts.

Starter needs replacing, right?! OEM replacement from CC Specialties is $215. Is OEM the wise option here or would I be fine with a cheaper one?

 

[bjames]

You're positive the battery is good? Just because it reads 12+ volts does not mean it is good.
I would jump it from a known good battery or car/truck directly to the starter just to be sure.

 

[taylorbirkey]

I mean, I read 12.56V directly off the battery terminals…

 

[gary noblit]

The first thing I would do is jump a hot wire to starter post.The starter should run without engaging.Note, starter not solenoid..You could then test the solenoid.Bad connections generally are found in the ground side,of course not always..If the solenoid is defective it can be purchased separate from starter.A typical after market solenoid will probably have metric threads,been there..just have to chase metric bolts... can't remember if they were 4 or 7....

 

[taylorbirkey]

The first thing I would do is jump a hot wire to starter post.The starter should run without engaging.Note, starter not solenoid..You could then test the solenoid.Bad connections generally are found in the ground side,of course not always..If the solenoid is defective it can be purchased separate from starter.A typical after market solenoid will probably have metric threads,been there..just have to chase metric bolts... can't remember if they were 4 or 7....

Thanks Gary! I'm going to run these additional tests this evening or tomorrow. If the starter is indeed bad, what should I expect to happen when I hot wire it?

 

[kphill]

A fully charged battery should read 13.2 volts.. 2.2 volts per cell X 6.. jump it with a known good battery and see what it does..

 

[gary noblit]

taylor,the wire from your solenoid TO the starter body is the one..It is bolted onto the sol.If the starter is good it will run if you're using battery in machine.That means it's already grounded.If you use a separate batt. you have to use pos and neg...Neg to frame. pos. to sol. post where starter is hooked. This action will not engage starter into flywheel that's what the sol does.Most of us call it a bendix....It is a magnetic plunger that pulls the starter gear into the flywheel. Sol. cost a lot less than the entire unit,the whole point of testing....keep us informed,there are many guys on here that can walk you thru it...

 

[mfrade]

I think you're wrong on that connection Gary. If he connects to the solenoid input - he'll still need to close the solenoid.. If he can connect to the solenoid output / starter motor input ( the braided wire) in his picture - then he should be able to spin the starter motor. I've read your reply 3 or 4 times and it leads me to think that either it isn't clear to me ( and possibly others) or something else.. LOL. I just don't want him to connect to the solenoid and not have any result. I'm thinking he'll see the battery cable and connect on top of it - but it probably won't change anything.

 

[gary noblit]

Mike ,I certainly didn't mean to mislead !! That's why I said connect to wire that goes into starter.I did not say sol. input,only out put, but that doesn't mean I made it clear enough..Thanks for the input from you...I do try to give specific directions on anything with the assumption the person asking has no knowledge..Giving vague answers doesn't help anyone....

 

[Reddoug]

Also check that you have a good ground connection. Bad grounds have bit me a few times. You can use a test light to check for a poor ground. clip onto Neg post on battery and touch probe to the block, you shouldn't have any or a very dim light. If it's bright, you have a bad ground. Need to have key or lights on.

 

[mfrade]

Mike ,I certainly didn't mean to mislead !! That's why I said connect to wire that goes into starter.I did not say sol. input,only out put, but that doesn't mean I made it clear enough..Thanks for the input from you...I do try to give specific directions on anything with the assumption the person asking has no knowledge..Giving vague answers doesn't help anyone....

I know "we" weren't trying to mislead but I know sometimes the words I type and what's in my head don't really convey what I am trying to say! and when I read and then re-read it.. I was not sure what was being said, and so I had the feeling that maybe others were just as confused. So I am glad you're not offended! We are all just trying to help right?!?!

 

[gary noblit]

Mike, not offended at all.I've figured out that I'm not perfect yet,yet I said... The only comments that bother me are those driven by ego not facts...I was an outdoor writer(part time) for 25 yrs and quickly learned the words one chooses matter a great deal in conveying a message...At my age all I have left is helping others so I "try" to do it well....And I never respond to negatives.....again , thanks for the input...

 

[taylorbirkey]

Thanks everyone. Going to do my best to get to the bottom of this!

 

[taylorbirkey]

....keep us informed, there are many guys on here that can walk you thru it...

Gary et al, I got the rig started up by simply jumping it from my Acura. I did test the starter prior to that and it spun up just fine, so it seems like it's just a bad battery after all. I ran the rig for about 10 minutes, drove it around the property before it shut off again. What are the chances I've got a bad alternator?!

ALSO ... any recommendations on replacement batteries? The one on the rig right now is a Walmart ValuePower 26R 550CA.

 

[gary noblit]

Taylor,first thing is batt. Put on a charger,if it reaches 13 volts it's likely good (not a guarantee).Use a meter to check batt while running at least half throttle ..meter across pos and neg..you should be getting plus 13 volts....if it only reads 12v the system isn't working....That's a Kohler so on the side of the plastic engine cover is a voltage regulator that is held in by screws..under one screw is a ground wire that probably runs to throttle linkage to ground reg.. If you don't know what it looks like google kohler reg. for a pic.Take that wire off and clean very well,including the screw head...put it back on and test again....If it now reads 13 you have solved the problem (this is a common issue)....If it still doesn't read 13 then likely your reg. is bad( check connections also)......If it reads 13 and your batt. doesn't hold a charge then it's time to replace batt.....Most elec. problems are corrosion in connections but not always so testing each component is how you prove the system..... The charging stator is under the flywheel and rarely go bad...

 

[mfrade]

I don't think I saw anywhere prior but did you mention the age of that battery? Also, the actual wire and the physical connections play a large role in keeping these machines working. I've seen corrosion travel right up the wire under the insulation and the connectors at the battery terminal be less than clean and impact the starter having full power to operate as intended. If you have a volt meter, attach it to the battery connections and turn the engine to where you normally run it. You should read on your meter, 13.8 to 14.2 volts ( on average) anything less and I'd say you have an issue in the charge circuit. HTH.

 

[taylorbirkey]

I don't think I saw anywhere prior but did you mention the age of that battery?

Battery is from Feb 2018. And thanks for the tips. It's an old rig and I'm sure the wiring/connections are playing a role.

Most elec. problems are corrosion in connections but not always so testing each component is how you prove the system..... The charging stator is under the flywheel and rarely go bad...

Right on. I've been metering ~12.5 on the battery so I'll charge it up and see how that goes, then troubleshoot the regulator if needed.

 

[taylorbirkey]

If you have a volt meter, attach it to the battery connections and turn the engine to where you normally run it. You should read on your meter, 13.8 to 14.2 volts ( on average) anything less and I'd say you have an issue in the charge circuit. HTH.

At full throttle under its own power, meter was fluctuating between the mid 12s to upper 13s. Not a steady voltage obviously but it was getting up around 13.8. I have a trickle charger on it now, I'll check and test again tomorrow.

 

[gary noblit]

At full throttle under its own power, meter was fluctuating between the mid 12s to upper 13s. Not a steady voltage obviously but it was getting up around 13.8. I have a trickle charger on it now, I'll check and test again tomorrow.

Taylor, seriously check connections especially grounds....Normal does not fluctuate like that....I'm still betting on reg ground (???)

 

[taylorbirkey]

Taylor, seriously check connections especially grounds....Normal does not fluctuate like that....I'm still betting on reg ground (???)

Sounds good Gary, will do. And thanks!