Mikes Very Own 169 Refurbish

[mfrade]

Thanks Harry. Now we'll need a short write-up on the performance gains/losses.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving all you cubbies!

 

[mfrade]

SO lets see, I worked for some 3 hours on getting the weight box fixed up, it was in poor shape, bent and twisted. SO I got it squared up and welded in some supports, installed some studs so if I wanted to remove the box I wouldn't leak any oil. Only to discover the box won't fit. It hits the fender supports and then the frame ends. GRRRRR..

And my parts from CCS arrived so I was thrilled to mount the pto.. only to discover I don't have the bearing to mount it on. sigh...

SO today I figure I got enough pieces to at least get it to firs up.. I used some jumpers and an auto battery added some gas and turned the key.

A few spins and it fires off! Only to start backing up instantly! I shut it off and jacked the rear tires off the ground. Now it only spins 2 maybe 3 times and stops, like the starter / gen has no power at all.

 

[hydroharry]

Mike - you want me to write a short write-up on performance gain/loss!!!!!! I only had about 12hrs run time on it to begin with, and when it originally came into my corral it didn't run, so I can't hardly address gain/loss. My whole reason for doing this was "peace of mind" (removing the balance/grenade gears). You can't have a show queen with a window in the block.

Now, sounds like you ran into a little trouble with yours. I'd check your grounds and all the wire routing to make sure it's correct. Hope you didn't burn something up. Also, I'm wondering which V/R you installed. It's easy to cross up the wiring if you don't look closely at the connector markings. And finally, if everything seems fine and correct, well I guess you'll have to swap in an S/G from one of your other units.

 

[mfrade]

Hi Harry. let's see, where to begin?

All the wires are correct, I even added a second ground. Just because. It just won't crank at a speed high enough. I made a bit of time after dinner and removed, opened up the starter / generator. It looks great inside, definitely been overhauled. For giggles I installed another starter/gen as a test and had the same results. It's so close to firing off, you can hear it, it just needs a bit more rpm.

SO now I'm thinking the compression release needs a bit of adjusting. I took .020" or .025" off the cylinder head gasket surface getting it squared and flat. This isn't helping I'm sure. Any added compression must be hindering it.

 

[dcalkins]

Mike F ,today i,m by the fire because i have a bad cold ,and ,so i will respond ,i been there and done that ,first be sure your right on with your .020 at the points ,then drop the drive shaft a nd see if it will start ,it should .next stop the engine ,remove the spark plug ,leave the drive shaft off .now roll the engine over by hand ,place a screw driver on the cam cover ,keep rolling it over ,you should hear a click ,the click is the c/r ,if you hear the click the c.r spring is to weak .and needs to be replaced .and yes you can do it w/o removing the engine ,remove tha cam cover ,roll the engine till you see the spring ,then ty a thread on the old spring ,and remove it .now do the same with a new spring ,,thats it ,now back to the click its the c/r weight ,and if the spring is good you will never hear it .and that lets the exhaust stay closed .that why is slow turning ,first time it happend to me i though it was the hydro ,as i had rebuilt it ,so i removed the drive shaft and it would start ,then i heard a clicl at the cam cover .and found the problem .and yes you still can get new springs for the c/r .good luck

 

[mfrade]

David C., thanks so much for the information! I'll do the tests you describe to confirm my / our suspicions. I was thinking about it over and over again during my day at work, about why it started originally and then would only crank very slow. I feel that once the rings began taking a "set" to the bore, the compression really jumped up and the S.G. just cannot overcome the compression. CCS is just gonna love sending me parts one at a time...

 

[kweaver]

My 127's K301 always cranked forever before it started , to the point that I hated using it. I'd charge the battery with a 40 amp charger then unhook it and try to start it. You'd think the S/G was going to burn up before it finally started. One day I had it charged up but I left the charger on it and turned the key. It fired up with maybe 2 complete 360s.
At one point I was wondering about the C.R. on it too, but it seems the battery is just to small for the S/G.

Have you got enough cranking amps to really spin it ?

 

[dcalkins]

Mike F i milled as much as .050 from the head as it should turn over ,that c/r spring is bvery small and won,t last for ever ,i just bought two of them from a cub dealer ,as the no longer stock them .

 

[mfrade]

Hi Ya Ken, thanks for the input.
I'm using a car battery with a charger, I keep the charger going and the meter on it says 13 1/2 volts before I'll crank it.

And the very first time I tried to run it I cranked it for 3 or 4 revolutions and it fired right off. Now it just labors to roll over. But it's much faster with no plug in it.

 

[mfrade]

Well that's not good news David!

Would you have the P.N. handy? I think CCS has one.

 

[digger]

PN/ IH-393610-R2 or KH-47-089-01

 

[mfrade]

Thanks Charlie! Have you already got it in a box? LOLOL.....

 

[mfrade]

David C., I pulled the pin in the driveshaft so it could rotate and cranked it over and it started by itself. I didn't do the next step yet, time was short but I was excited to hear it run! I already ordered the spring and will install it as I believe it is part of the problem.

Motor does run good shakes a lot at idle but I'm not sure of the rpm's 'til I get a tach on it.

 

[dcalkins]

Mike F ,good to hear you got it going ,that little spring won,t last forever .i just bought the last two the dealer had ,and being a hydro makes the problem worce ,

 

[mfrade]

The PTO bearing and now the spring got here today. Thanks Charlie for those and the "extras"!

I hope to make some time Saturday and get those installed. Maybe with some luck, it'll all come together and I can mount up the Thrower and chains too!

 

[mfrade]

I got the spring installed (finally!) what a pain in the a_ _! Took my fat fingers and ALL my patience to get it in the right spot without causing any damage. I didn't have any thread and I was terrified of dropping it in the motor so I stripped down a length of multistrand 20 gauge wire and used a single wire as a retrieval rope.

So it's in and the motor is closed up again, and back in the chassis. I'm hoping to get some time to test it all out tomorrow.

 

[hydroharry]

Mike - since today is "tomorrow" based on your last post I hope you got all your patience back. Actually I'm pretty amazed you got that spring in there. I assume you must have some heat in your shop and we're gonna hear something about your K341A firing up today!!!!!!

 

[mfrade]

Hello Harry. I actually drove it around the shop today. I finished connecting things this morning and did a couple startups. Seemed much better. Set the pin into the driveshaft coupler and took 3 steps back, as Don Tanner would say. Threw the towel in (literally) and went home for lunch.

I cooled off and after lunch went back at it. Seems it will start but trying to figure out how much choke and throttle oh and then the whine.. I must admit that I have not had any fun with this slushbox tranny so far. It still turns over very slow, so when it does begin to start I don't let off the key until I know it's up and running and making revs.

I'm using an old worn out battery and jumping the tractor with another battery, then unhitch the jumpers and I can ride around. Oh and the hydraulic piston works so that went right. I finished up the afternoon by installing the new front PTO. I'm going to keep connecting things like the grille and lights then the snow thrower with wheel weights and chains. If it won't start reliably.. I'll push it into a corner!

 

[eford]

Mike, have you tried hooking up a good battery? I have had many problems in the past with anything having a weak or bad battery in it trying to start, or just hard starting. Even with jumping, I had one suck the juice out of my truck and killed the alternator while letting it sit and charge the dead car before trying to start. It could have been another problem in the dead vehicle, but just offering my view. Nice work regardless on the 169!

 

[mhomrighausen]

Earl F. is correct about using a worn battery on anything. If you want to compare hard starting hydros with anything disconnect the safety switch and try using the same battery to start a gear transmission without pushing in on the clutch. Now you're turning over the gears instead of a hydro pump. What I've found works nice is a trickle charger and good battery. I don't have a Battery Tender like Steve B. and others recommend but the one I do have sure helps out.

You'll get your tractor running. I'm happy that you walk away when you get frustrated. That shows good common sense. We are all rooting for you.