Help please

[Getch357]

Hello all so i am brand new to the forum still trying to figure out how and where to post to get results. That being said I have a 1972 Ih cub cadet 127 hydrostatic tractor with a sears suburban bucket loader on it. have spent quite a few dollars replacing main parts and now I did something stupid and lent it out. well, they put it back instead of telling me it was there they just parked it in my tent and left it...well I found out why 6 weeks later when i needed it...now 1st off I don't use this a lot but when needed it's there. (so, i take it out and have to pump up tire which by the way is new) so after about 4 mins tire is dead now this may sound stupid but please keep in mind im a newbie all the way around never had any kind of tractor growing up or even as an adult until moving here and buying stuff so im not sure if the dead tire is causing the issue or something else so it's weird because it's like all of a sudden my steering wheel is free floating but not turning the wheels so I look at it and as your sitting on it it's the left knuckle it has a type of steering it comes from the steering wheel and goes down the shaft connects to a gear and there are 3 rods 1 come from gear to top of knuckle and the other comes off bottom of knuckle and goes over to right side to steer that wheel now as I was looking at it I noticed a bolt sticking out of top of knuckle and i tried to turn it. it was what i thought was loose and after trying to turn which it did freely i tried to pull it and low and behold it comes right out but looks to be sheered in half end still in knuckle i know I'm not using correct parts but hoping you all can follow along here. so what I'm needing is info on how this steering actually works how to take knuckle apart (because ive been told i may have to drill it out because there are threads on part that's stuck inside!! so 1st off can a flat tire cause this type of steering to stop working so wheels will not turn?? and how do i take this apart to fix this...now please keep in mind I'm a newbie and a gulf war veteran with p.t.s.d so it may take a little explaining for me to get it I am attaching a picture of the knuckle as I'm referring to it. Thanks for any and all help and please if I'm posting in wrong place someone please explain how to post on this site and where to post. thanks again

 

[dschwandt]

It sounds like whoever used this unit really abused it and maybe ran into or over something??
1st off, I'd get on their case right away and find out just WTH happened!

Loaders are VERY HARD on these little machines unless you have power steering.
One cannot overload them and expect them to steer without difficulty.
Sound like the coiled pin that connects part #8 (steering arm) & #6 steering knuckle) to the axle is sheared off.
The pin is not shown and is a 5/16" coiled Spirol pin.

Or it could be that whoever cranked to hard up against the stop in the steering gear and busted the side out of the case.

This should explain a lot to you if you study it a bit.
.
.PS, a bit or punctuation in your posts would be greatly appreciated, very hard to follow.

 

[dsarow]

We love any questions and pictures are extremely important.Our members are eager to help and their is a wealth of information on this site.Continue on,and hide that key!

 

[Getch357]

It sounds like whoever used this unit really abused it and maybe ran into or over something??
1st off, I'd get on their case right away and find out just WTH happened!

Loaders are VERY HARD on these little machines unless you have power steering.
One cannot overload them and expect them to steer without difficulty.
Sound like the coiled pin that connects part #8 (steering arm) & #6 steering knuckle) to the axle is sheared off.
The pin is not shown and is a 5/16" coiled Spirol pin.

Or it could be that whoever cranked to hard up against the stop in the steering gear and busted the side out of the case.

This should explain a lot to you if you study it a bit.
.
.PS, a bit or punctuation in your posts would be greatly appreciated, very hard to follow.

View attachment 157992View attachment 157993

It sounds like whoever used this unit really abused it and maybe ran into or over something??
1st off, I'd get on their case right away and find out just WTH happened!

Loaders are VERY HARD on these little machines unless you have power steering.
One cannot overload them and expect them to steer without difficulty.
Sound like the coiled pin that connects part #8 (steering arm) & #6 steering knuckle) to the axle is sheared off.
The pin is not shown and is a 5/16" coiled Spirol pin.

Or it could be that whoever cranked to hard up against the stop in the steering gear and busted the side out of the case.

This should explain a lot to you if you study it a bit.
.
.PS, a bit or punctuation in your posts would be greatly appreciated, very hard to follow.

View attachment 157992View attachment 157993

Thank you, DSchwandt for replying. I know my punctuation is not great. Maybe as a result of my p.t.s.d I have a tendency to try to get things out all the way before I forget them! Lololol. As far as lending anything out ever again it won't happen! On to the problem you are right so the pin that goes into the hole at the bottom of 8 has been sheered, my issue is I don't know how to take it apart do you just take the nut and bolt off of the rod at the end of 8 and it just lifts off? The pin appears to have threads on the other end and that's what I'm trying to figure out. I am hoping by taking #8 off I can access that part of the bolt and maybe just take it out with pliers. Im not sure and again very new to these things and trying to take something apart to fix it when you have no idea what you are doing can be an issue. One thing i asked and I'm not sure of would a flat tire on the opposite side cause this steering issue? or am i just hoping and reaching? lolol. Thank you for the illustration it is very helpful. Is there anywhere on the site or elsewhere I could find the illustrations for the whole tractor? that would help a lot! This tractor I believe I found out is a 1972 and she cranks right up every time I need her, will never lend her out again I have a lot invested in her and don't plan on losing any of it again. Thanks for your reply it's appreciated

 

[Getch357]

It sounds like whoever used this unit really abused it and maybe ran into or over something??
1st off, I'd get on their case right away and find out just WTH happened!

Loaders are VERY HARD on these little machines unless you have power steering.
One cannot overload them and expect them to steer without difficulty.
Sound like the coiled pin that connects part #8 (steering arm) & #6 steering knuckle) to the axle is sheared off.
The pin is not shown and is a 5/16" coiled Spirol pin.

Or it could be that whoever cranked to hard up against the stop in the steering gear and busted the side out of the case.

This should explain a lot to you if you study it a bit.
.
.PS, a bit or punctuation in your posts would be greatly appreciated, very hard to follow.

View attachment 157992View attachment 157993

DSchwandt, hello again, I'm sorry thought of another thing that is Happening. When I turn the steering wheel, it moves the top on #8 however the other or bottom part #6 has a bar #5 that goes across to the right front wheel. it moves forward and back but the right front wheel does not move, this is also the 1 with the flat tire at present. I am not sure, but I believe this has rack and pinion steering?? Would it be possible that I have to adjust the spacer nut that's there to make it move the steering on the right side?? Any info would be great. If there is a page that goes along with these illustrations that names the numbered pieces that would be Fantastic if someone could post it here for me.

 

[dschwandt]

If indeed the pin is sheared and the knuckle will not move when the steering arm does then you should be able to pry the arm off the knuckle and drive what's left of the pin pieces out so you can replace them.

Here's the link to the parts look up site where you will find parts books for your Cub.
Click on the lower black "Cub Cadet" script for the older cubs such as yours and then type in 127 and it should take you to where you want6b to be.
Take a look around and get used to it as it will be a lot of help for you in the future .

 

[gary noblit]

Getch,may I suggest..jack up the front in the center until both wheels are free of the ground.You will then be able to tell what is moving or not.It appears from the pic you do have a bolt in item 8.If it s threaded it would not come from the factory that way.It was as c-3 said a spirol pin.It's hard to guess what a previous owner might have done...You also could have a sheared guide inside of steering box,they do wear out..might take an extra set of hands to find out what's stuck or what's working..one step at a time..

 

[Getch357]

If indeed the pin is sheared and the knuckle will not move when the steering arm does then you should be able to pry the arm off the knuckle and drive what's left of the pin pieces out so you can replace them.

Here's the link to the parts look up site where you will find parts books for your Cub.
Click on the lower black "Cub Cadet" script for the older cubs such as yours and then type in 127 and it should take you to where you want6b to be.
Take a look around and get used to it as it will be a lot of help for you in the future .

I appreciate all the info but you forgot to add the link..lolol...thanks in advance

 

[Getch357]

Getch,may I suggest..jack up the front in the center until both wheels are free of the ground.You will then be able to tell what is moving or not.It appears from the pic you do have a bolt in item 8.If it s threaded it would not come from the factory that way.It was as c-3 said a spirol pin.It's hard to guess what a previous owner might have done...You also could have a sheared guide inside of steering box,they do wear out..might take an extra set of hands to find out what's stuck or what's working..one step at a time..

Gary, I appreciate the info. 1 thing I'm seeing is in the booklet it says the front tires are supposed to be 4.80/4.00-8 I looked these up and they are skinny tires and rims. but then it also has my size which are 16x6.50x8 I don't know which ones are supposed to be on there. it is all very confusing. One thing you mentioned is a sheered guide inside the steering box, is this what I'm referring to as the knuckle and is the guide inside of this? would you have any pics of this? I would love to return her to what she was but I'm just at the beginning of the journey and since she is so old its hard-to-find parts unless I get help from forums like this. Thank you all for helping and any more info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[gary noblit]

getch, the bottom drawing that Dave sent shows breakdown of steering column.Item 14 is the gearbox on the bottom of shaft.There is a pin in the side that follows the part that looks like threads when the wheel is turned.That rotates the outer plate.More than likely the issue is in wheels and connecting rods as well as worn connections..The bigger tires are a good thing with the added weight of loader.

 

[dschwandt]

Gary, Yes on the tires, BUT those big turf treads make it even HARDER to manually steer!

Here's the link to the parts lookup for the 127
https://www.cubcadet.com/en_US/content-asset-page-includes/ari-partstream.html#

 

[mgonitzke]

4.80/4.00-8 is the standard size, but 16x6.50-8 is optional and likely what most were equipped with. Either is "correct".

4-ply front tires inflated to the sidewall maximum is the way to go if you have a loader on one of these machines. 2-ply tires do not have a high enough load rating.

Manuals for your tractor can be found here: http://ccmanuals.info

 

[dxsmith]

Getch, you might try to have someone turn the steering wheel for you and you lay under the machine enough to visible see the bottom of the steering box. If you can verify that Item # 3 from the steering box is moving, then it should tell you that the issues are more likely in the front end. Maybe put a little pressure on the steering linkage #13, just to verify this also.

 

[Getch357]

Getch, you might try to have someone turn the steering wheel for you and you lay under the machine enough to visible see the bottom of the steering box. If you can verify that Item # 3 from the steering box is moving, then it should tell you that the issues are more likely in the front end. Maybe put a little pressure on the steering linkage #13, just to verify this also.

Thank you to everyone who has replied for all your helpful tips. That being said everyone is referring to the 2 diagrams that were originally put up in the 1st response. I would love to have the next few pages to them diagrams the ones that say what part # is usually in those booklets after they show the illustration the very next page will have the numbers and beside it what each part is that would be great if someone had that and added it here so I can refer to the right parts when explaining my problems and as I did with the 1st illustration I will save it to my laptop so then I would know exactly what part I need when ordering them!

 

[dschwandt]

That info is all on the lookup site I posted a link to earlier.
You are going to have to log onto that site and get to know your way around there a bit. All you have to do once on the page you need is to click on the numbers in the boxes for that info to come up in a menu.

Have you taken anything apart yet?

 

[Getch357]

That info is all on the lookup site I posted a link to earlier.
You are going to have to log onto that site and get to know your way around there a bit. All you have to do once on the page you need is to click on the numbers in the boxes for that info to come up in a menu.

Have you taken anything apart yet?

No I have not....needed to wait till I get paid on the 1st so hopefully this weekend! and interestingly enough that link never showed up until I got an alert that you had responded, so i went on thru my phone and it was there. I am now on my laptop and it's here also...unsure why but hey I got it Thank you all for your responses I will give an update once I get in there and see. Just so you Know I was never really good at punctuations and capital, commas and grammar so my run on sentences are just a result of a public-school education and me being a kid who had to deal with a lot of crap at home and not really taking an interest in grammar at the time so my apologies for this I will try to do better

 

[Getch357]

one last thing to you all that have responded, what I am wondering is once I take off the top part and remove the bolt thats in there is there anything else thats there in the axle itself that causes the bottom cover to turn? The reason I am asking is because the top part #8 is moving which controls the left front wheel but the wheel is not moving. That being said the bottom part # That is #6 has #4 attached to it and #4 rod does not move nor does the right front tire and as I said that tire is flat. I am wondering is there a gear in the axle under where the broken bolt is that moves the bar#4 to turn right front tire? any info will be greatly appreciated.

 

[gary noblit]

Getch,It appears to me you just described a sheared pin in item 8 (first drawing)..2 drawing #3 moves the rod #13 and connects the to top of spindle.If items #4 are not moving but steering rod is, then the pin thru #8 has to be sheared.Do not try to drill out remainder,it is hard metal.A flat nose punch is the only right way.I've seen a couple that after pin was out the holes were wallowed egg shape.These can be drilled to a larger size but must be accurate ,spindle has to be resized as well.Not wise to do this with a hand drill..There is no gear in axle...A guess: your friend rammed the bucket into something and a wheel got caught and sheared the pin..

 

[dschwandt]

Jack up the front of the tractor so you can see just WTH is going on when you try to move things.
And, BTW, fix the tire That's probably why you can't ,move anything right now.

This is not rocket science sounds like you are overthinking this.
The diagrams in the parts lookup explain visually just how everything goes together or in your case should come apart.

Disconnecting the drag link from the spindle may make it easier, then turning the steering wheel, the drag link should move back and forth (front to rear, if it does then that hopefully rules out any issues w/the steering sector.

With the drag link disconnected, you should be able to move the tie rod back and forth (left to right) and see just what the issue is.