Building a new Shop

[dtanner]

Matt Stetar

One thing to think of is the insulation under your
slab so the heat does not wick away. you can pour the cement over 3" blue foam like I did or fill the hole with small rock and insulate out side. This can be done by digging down below the frost level where you live and add the foam insulation out side the building. I have cement wall on a footing 20" wide 10" thick and the wall is keyed to set on the footing. I used an 8" cement wall and then the 6" wood studs with 6" pink and 1.5" foam under the sideing. I just got a power bill a few days ago and see with the new electric boiler I`am paying around $10.00 a day to heat my shop and power for the house.The power rates went up here but I `am using less power than last year. If you plan to use an out side boiler I would add a few storage tanks in the shop , this way the boiler would not have to be used 24/7 . The temp you choose to have in your shop will determine the temp of the water to heat the cement.You will need a temperature control valve to blend the water as it is pumped back into the floor. I think my cement is just a few deg warmer than what I have the thermostat set at. Say three 80 gallon tanks connected to a boiler would heat the building for hrs with no fire in the boiler.my friends house is 28'x58' and he uses two 60 gallon tanks .they only heat the tanks at off hrs (11 pm to 6 am)off the power grid. So 1 fire up a day could heat a big shop if it was done correctly. I would use an open system from the boiler to the tanks and then closed at 10 psi for the floor, this way you will have a good flow and no cold zones. Now that I don`t have a tank to heat my water I run a closed system at 10 psi in the floor. later Don T

 

[dfrisk]

MATT - my advice on doors, face them away from the prevailing winds, and south facing doors are nice. Plus every door, a big roll-up door is like having a hole in the wall a foot or two square. Don't put in more than you need. They're expensive to buy and maintain.

Windows, I'm like you, told my garage/shop builder I didn't want ANY. He thought I was kidding! I wasn't, but he put two windows about 20" x 30" wide, one facing SE centered in the back wall and the other centered in the SW long wall over the work bench. They're nice but a nuisance all at the same time. Maybe skylights are the answer.

Lights, if you have cold temps, cheap flourecent lights are out, you have to buy the expensive ones, I went with incandescent's and have replaced about 5 of the 11 with compact florescents. Maybe sodium vapor lights if quick start lights aren't needed. But remember, the cheapest light to run is the most expensive to buy. That's why I went with a $1.29 screw in bulb base on a 79 cent nail-in box. All depends on how you'll use your shop. If you live in it, make light & heat a priority, If you'll be a weekend warrior, take the cheaper route.

 

[mstetar]

Dennis I will be living in it lol literaly while I build my house probably for a few years I plan on making an apparent in the one corner I saw a building almost exactly how I want mine at a horse farm up the road from my land, pretty sure its just there stables but it looks about the same as what Im visioning they do have tin siding and roofing but they have a clear strip about 2ft tall that runs along the top of the long walls to let light in, which is great but Im thinking it would let all my heat out!

 

[lhinds]

Matt whatever type lighting you decide to use should include dielectric grease on all bulb contacs. This will extend life and make the bulb ignite faster in cold or damp locations. Also on all incandesent bulbs buy 130 volt bulbs for long life.

 

[dfrisk]

MATT - Girl I used to know married a Very Lucky Guy who had a Boat Load of "Toys", a restored mid-50's vintage Chevy pickup, a late 60's Camaro, nice 4X4 pickup as his daily driver, plus a Peterbilt AND a Kenworth. He built an 80 X 120 ft shop across the road from his folk's place. Took one corner of the shop and built their living quarters in it, two-story loft, nice open floor plan. I saw pictures and it was very nice. Plus right outside his door were all his toys. The building was big enough he could drive his KW with trailer attached inside, turn it around and drive it out without dropping the trailer.

 

[digger]

It's tight but I can turn mine around inside, LOL

 

[mstetar]

Charlie What size is your building?

 

[digger]

That part is 80 x 120

 

[mstetar]

thanks! could you possibly post some more pics of it, the way its constructed and so forth?

 

[digger]

Matt S.
It's just a pole barn. The pics below pretty much show how it's built.
Other than digging some holes, planting post, nailing on wood and tin, that's about it.

 

[dfrisk]

The topic of pole barns comes up frequently on the RPM forum. One frequent poster who farms thousands of acres rebuilt a pole barn he had built 15-20 yrs ago. The poles had rotted off at ground level. Forget which brand it was, but the replacements were called a "perma-column". Some sort of manfactured pole resistant to rot. Some companies also use laminated beams over doors, etc. Much stronger than a couple 2X10's nailed together.

Years ago when I hauled ready-mix I was one of two trucks that poured a new floor in a steel truss building. Think the thing was like 120 X 60, we had both trucks inside unloading a time or two, LOTS of room. Building was about a mile from the batch plant, but we had to drive around the low 10 ft tall railroad viaduct. Building was for storing bagged livestock feed & seed. Floor was about six inches thick over plastic sheeting over syrofoam insulation board with reinforcing wire. Clear span everywhere except for the piers the truss beams sat on. Nice building. But $$$$$$$.

 

[kmcconaughey]

I meant to take these photos and post them earlier but kept forgetting to take them.

I thought some of you might get a kick out of the electric panel in my house. The guy that built it used a rather large disconnect switch. Tim "the tool man" would be proud. More power. Not really, Even though it's a 400 amp panel I only have 200 amp service. The breaker panel on the left is for off peak service to my electric water heater, air conditioner and my forced air electric furnace. The breaker panel on the right is for all the other electric service. The sub-panel on the far right is a transfer switch for when/if I need to hook up my generator. The well pump, freezer, refrigerator and some key circuits, including the blower for the wood furnace are routed through this panel. Not really much to do with a shop but with the early posts about electric service I thought some might enjoy seeing this.

I really should have opened the disconnect switch panel up. The fuses are huge and almost comical to see in a home electrical panel.

 

[dfrisk]

KRAIG - That looks like something my DAD would create.

Their house was an old farmstead for 160 acre farm. The original house burned down and was replaced in the 1920's. The big front barn had carving & writing in it dating back to 1891. Barn was built with sawn beams, BIG beams, some 8"x8"x20-26 ft long, all pegged together. Anyhow, place still had the original 60A 220V service panel. And Dad put central air in the house when they moved in back in '72, plus all his welders & power tools, well pump, elec. cloths dryer, etc. I have NO idea why he didn't trip the breakers or blow fuses every time he turned a light on.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Denny, I should mention that I was the one that added the transfer switch sub-panel. The rest of it was there when I bought the place. One time when I had to have the forced air electric furnace serviced it was quite funny to see the service guy's eyes bug out when he saw that big disconnect.

 

[dfrisk]

KRAIG - He probably thought when he pulled the lever to "OFF" half of Northern WI was going to go dark!

25 yrs ago the co. I worked for moved from rented office & warehouse space to a new dilapidated manufacturing plant. LOT of wiring for BIG machine tools had to be done. We had a Mattison 60 inch rotary surface grinder that pulled something like 150A 460V. Gen'l Mgr hred a retired electrician, older guy, must have been 75-80 yrs old. Hardest working electrician I've ever seen.

One morning we had a HUGE rain/hail storm, storm blew thru about Midnight, 2 AM, 4AM, & 6AM. The one-way 3-lane street next to our building in downtown Moline, IL flooded. We watched a telephone pole float down the street for two blocks I remember. The electrician always showed up at 6 AM, brought donuts or cookies, had coffee and went to work. THAT morning, with water about ankle deep in the whole plant I remember him saying, "Well, NO wiring today.... I'm going HOME!", He grabbed his old step ladder and was gone! Next morning hi was back to work.

The way that place was wired I'm surprised we didn't get electrocuted just touching the water let alone walking in it. WHAT a mess that place was.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Denny, I don't blame him one bit for heading back home. Electricity and water don't mix! BTW, the furnace service guy only needed to shut the breaker for the furnace off. No need to flip that BIG lever. I have though, it does take a LOT of force to move. I think I might have to open it up tonight to take some photos of the big fuses inside.

 

[dtanner]

This post should be on topic for Charlie to not

. this, but with my new electric furnace I now pay $10.21 a day for power for my home and shop. The shop is 64 deg at 6'. I do wonder what % charlie pays for sgure footage to heat his place???


Kraig
I bet that pannel has some big fusses in it. I don`t see what they feed to . More than enuf to run a nice shop or a farm with the house and shop on the same line. I`am having a quote done now for my shop and house to feed off more power at a less rate. If I strike and ark in the shop I can make the lights dim. The house will also flutter , so I will have to get a bigger entrance from 100 amp to 200 amp. $10.20 a day is not a bad deal.?

 

[dfrisk]

DON - I was really surprised when I finally hooked my shop elec. panel up to the house, (I ran the shop with two BIG extension cords for almost 2 yrs) The only thing that dimmed/flickered the lights when I turned it on was my Craftsman 10" radial arm saw, 15A 110V. My BIG 7-1/2 HP air compressor doesn't bother them, 30+A 220V, none of the welders bother them, but I bet the high frequency pulses in the plasma cutter & TIG welder do some funky stuff to some of the electrics.

Lot of farms with big grain handling systems or feed systems, silo's, etc have 460 3-phase power. Grain bin ventilation fans, augers, dryers, & elevators take a L-O-T of HP to run. If I had 3-phase power I'd really have to get a bigger shop. I'd like to have a Bridgeport mill and a G&L Boring bar like Dan H has.

The house & farm We lived in down in Freeport, IL had elec. heat, resistance baseboard heaters in most of the rooms. The elec. bill was about $200/month AVERAGE for the year. The Landlord's 25,000 bushel corn bin & dryer also ran off the same elec. meter so I had to pay for the elec. thru the rent. We looked at some houses in that area that the monthly budget plan for elec. was $400/mo., but they had a couple window unit air conditioners. Most all elec. homes around there didn't have HVAC air ducts so had lots of window A/C units. We didn't have A/C so on hot days we went to town and wandered around the mall.

 

[kmcconaughey]

As threatened, here's the inside view of the disconnect switch panel.

 

[digger]

Kraig,
Having had a Master Electricians license for more than 30 years and being on the NEC board for 17 of those years, You really don't want me to critique that setup do ya, LOL