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Archive through September 27, 2012

IH Cub Cadet Forum

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Brian W - well I'll be danged, I think that's the first pic we've seen of your 1250. It's a nice looking machine, especially on the white side. The decals look perfect and you got nice upper and lower grills. Now the yeller is a bit worn, and I can tell you been scoot'n thru the puddles. You didn't mention that before, and I'd recommend avoidin'em. What's the latest report on the ISO's?

Kraig - I stirred the pot and got you to respond to Keith's question. I was pretty certain of what you said about the xxA and xxC. I don't think I've ever seen an xx (no suffix) so I just couldn't say.

Dennis - I spun my Goodyear Terra II 23x10.5 turf tires on alot of snow/ice/sleet/slush you name it. I used 4 link chains for awhile, as long as I could handle the bounce as the chain/tire/chain/tire rotation alternated contact with the surface. I finally went to 2 cross link chains and although it still has some bounce I felt like I had better traction. My final key was adding 75# of wheel weight to each rear wheel. That gave me just what I needed to keep from spinning/slippin. I never went to the 23x8.5 tire although I thought the narrower tire would give me better traction (less surface to spread the weight over). My 75# weights were actually 25# cast iron with a #50 lead disk bolted to it, and wouldn't fit into the wheel for an 8.5 wide tire. Overall I think whatever anyone uses takes a little figuring out what really works best for them. There's so many factors to consider like - gear or hydro, surface used on, what attachment (blade/thrower), any slope, width of tire, chains (2 or 4 cross link, and spiked), even the weight of the rider. I guess if what ever you're using don't work good then change to something else until you figure out what does really work well for you. One thing tho, I never thought chains really fit well on ag tires, such that you could really get them tight, but that could be because I never really used them, only ever looked at them on other peoples, and you'd be amazed at all the different ways there are to mount chains without following the instructions.

Kraig and Amy - I think that's a smart such and such kid in the pic next to the pool. Looks to me like he wasn't payin' attention and ran the mowing deck into that stone wall and bent the runner on the left side of the deck (dang kids). At least he was smart enough to lock the brake while he's sittin on the tractor. One thing I am wonderin' - that BLUE stuff he's drinking, is that Kool-Aid? I sorta remember a flavor that color, and your tongue ended up the same.

Now Amy - time for your tires. You never told us what size you currently have. I suspect they are either 6x12 or 23x8.5x12. The 6x12 are really hard to find in decent condition mostly cause they got dropped as the standard basic size in favor of the 23x8.5's. If you do look for used I'd stick with finding them already mounted on a Cub wheel. I've removed to many that didn't show any cracks only to see them all cracked as you remount them. I also think having chains is pretty much a must for you, and you definitely need weights. I don't recall if you have disc or internal wet brakes but if you have the internal then you can get yourself 2 sets of IH weights and put one set on the inside of the wheel (at least with 8.5 wide tires, I'm not sure you can with the 6x12 tire). Otherwise you'll have to mount both weights on the outside of the wheel, which they are made to do, but I never really liked that since the weight is towards the outside rather then in the center of the wheel. If you stack them on the outside it gives you a wider area to track, which isn't a big deal but with your little thrower and deep snow you may find yourself knocking snow back down on what you just cleared. So check out Miller Tire, and check with the Sponsors on here, they might have some good used tires, and you can post in the Classified Wanted section on here as well. You might just run across something pretty good. Keep in mind the width of your thrower cut, and the width of your rear tire track (8.5 will be wider than 6x12).

Don T - you're pretty good with 2 fingers, but I gotta admit, I use 4 on each hand, and right thumb for the space bar.
 
Amy - we really need a pic of your unit. It should look similar to this one my son had for awhile.
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Good morning, All.
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Amy K. I'm thinking that what the guys really want to see is a picture of you and your tractor.
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Wheel weights - do you folks leave them on year round or remove them after snow duty or garden plowing?

I found it to be a pain in the buttox to take them on and off, so I just leave them on. I think my weights are between 35 and 50 lbs, more towards 50, I can't remember - but I can't imagine wrestling with 75 lbs of weights on a tire.

I gather the wheel weights used on the CC's are the same weights used on a Farmall's front wheels? Are they 25lbs and stack-able? Can you bolt one in place and then attached second so you are only handling 25 lbs at a time?

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Mike F.

Now don't be getting our hopes up for a NEW 149! We all wouldn't be THAT lucky! Oh if only it was possible.

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Harry,IDK what size they are now id have to look.I have always wanted to find a set of wheel weights,I just never found any around here.For years ive used the snow thrower without weights and I really havent had any issues. If the snow is deep I might have to go slower is all.

I have tried getting a picture of the 104 on here several times but when I go to re-size it I get 800x599 instead of the 800x600. Im not really sure why it does that ?

Marlin,lol...you could be right ...
 
OK Guys, admit it.....
How many of you, when 1st looking at the picture below of the 127 that Kraig posted.....
First thoughts were ......
"Hey,..... just stick your foot out there and tip her backwards into the drink!!"??

Must be the teenager in me wanting out....again...!
Dave S
 
David Schwandt

This might be to long ago for you but that picture made me think of a song (little bitty teeny weeny pocodot bikini , that she wore for the first time today )lol.
 
BILL J. - Yes, the IH CC rear weights are the very same weights IH offered for frt wheel weights on Farmall Cub & Cub LoBoys, 26# each, and if you have enough 1/2" hardware you can run four or more per rear wheel. If you have internal brakes on your CC you can run two pair INSIDE the rear wheels too. With the external disk brakes they all have to mount on the outside.

I have one set of non-IH weights on the inside of the wheels on the 70 that weigh about 22-23#each, plus I have another 65-70# of weight I bolt to the drawbar when I push snow with the 42" blade. That plus the 2-link chains on the 6-12 GY turfs gives me O-K traction, but another 100# of weight would be better. I run about 70# of weight on the 72 all the time, a pair of solid weights I bought at a farm sale in about 1970 for $5/pair. I paid more for the carriage bolts to mount then on the 70 than I did for the weights! They look like JD weights but they were old and rusty in '70 when I bought them, not a trace of paint anywhere, so they're NOT JD weights. And the other pair is a set of IH weights on the inside. I was running two sets inside years ago but put the 2nd set on the 70. The 982 has about 75# per rear wheel, two pair of IH weights plus another set of Bolens or ??? weights that sets INSIDE the rim of the wheels. No fluid in ANY of the tires, tubes in them all, except maybe the frt wheels on the 982. SON's had a slow leaker frt tire all summer, so maybe it'll get tubes this winter.

I have 2-link chains for both FARMALL's, they're both remodeled semi-truck chains, each chain for each tractor weighs about 200#. The 70 wears a well worn set of 2-link chains all the time, and I have a used set of ATV 2-link chains that fit the 23-8.50 Firestone tires on the 72. I've only had them on one winter when I used the QA-36 blower when I had a broken leg years ago. I could ride the 72 "Side-Saddle" and blow snow, but couldn't run the Farmalls for a month. The 72 & 982 hibernate all winter. The 70 pushes small snows, less than 2", the Super H pushes everything else. We played with the M & Loader one winter with chains and without chains the next year.The 70 w/chains would push more snow than the M w/o chains. Didn't make any difference if the M was on concrete or crushed rock or grass. 50 HP 7000# tractor verses 7 HP 700# tractor.

Last summer I removed the fluid from the rear tires of my Super H and replaced the 57 yr old factory inner tubes. I probably removed 500# of fluid from the back of the tractor, but the once or twice I moved snow last winter I didn't notice much difference in performance. If we have a bad winter, I may put a couple more sets of rear wheel weights off the M on the SH. They're 140# each plus a few pounds of hardware. There's two pair on the SH already and three pair on the M.

I run ALL my chains loose. The chains last much longer that way because you don't concentrate the wear on one side of the cross bars and a few links of the chains. The chains on the old 70 I've used for close to 30 yrs and the chains on the Super H for close to 20 yrs. Staying off hard pavement and trying not to spin the tires makes them last much longer. If your going to run full speed I can see having the chains tight, but I've run wide open with the M on blacktop roads with loose chains with no problem. Never had a chain come off either. All my chains "Bolt-On", the over-center clasps have ALL been removed. Couple short caps screws, couple flat washers with Nylock nuts works much better IMO. The best chains for traction have a "V" shaped bar welded across the links, next best are twisted link chains, the standard link style 2-link chains are so-so, and the 4-link style are just ..."so".

NIC B. - the 44/50C decks still have the ST-765 waterpump bearings. I had a worn bearing & bearing housing on my 50C I had to replace about 2 yrs ago. All I'll say about that is, "OUCH!!!!" The spindle & bearing was only $65, but the two pieces of the housing was over $100.
 
Hydro, that "bent runner" on the mower deck is actually from the fold line and staple that was through the page. I did a bit of editing on that years ago to remove the calendar, add the lower part of the image from the next page and edit out the fold line and staple holes as best I could. Here's the original images I worked with.

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Mike F.,
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I think you should send a copy of your "149 reissue add" to Cub Cadet...
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Kraig, thanks for the photo clarifacation, I was wondering if the front of that cub sat in water because it had a water stain on the front wheel.
 
Lots of the old brochures, manuals and data sheets I've gotten in for scanning over the years needed some touch up. That 1970 calendar/brochure didn't necessarily need touching up but I did it anyway. This Shredder datasheet was the worst it DID need touching up.

FRONT BEFORE:

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FRONT AFTER:

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BACK BEFORE:

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BACK AFTER:

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To further respond to Keith Ostendorf's question and to confirm much of what both Kraig and Nic have posted, I thought I would supply some pictures of my "44" deck that came with my Model 149, a 50A deck I picked up, and a later model 44C deck which was originally installed on a CCC Cyclops model (I was told, although Matt Gonitzke disagrees):

The "44" deck has been heavily modified by previous owners, but the Tag ID identifies it as a 44" deck, it came with a 3/8" center pulley, water-pump style spindle bearings, some sort of "skid bars" left and right (since replaced), and only two holes at the clevis bolts at the front:

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The 50A deck came originally with water-pump style spindle bearings, skid bars left and right, the same 3/8" PTO drive pulley and mine has three holes drilled for the clevis bolts, although I don't know but what one has been added. Like Kraig said, I'm not sure what significant differences there are between the 44/50 decks and the 44A/50A decks.

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The 44C deck may have the CCC name, but I'm fairly certain that in most respects it identical to the IH variety, with the possible exception of the "handle" on top of the right, discharge, side of the deck. Note that the 44C/50C decks have the Patio Wheels up front on the left and right (not skid bars) and that there are three (3) holes from the factory to mount the clevis bolts (and a 4th for I'm not sure what). The center pulley takes a 5/8" drive belt and is significantly smaller in diameter than the 5" stock center pulley for the xx/xxA decks (there is a 4-1/2" "speed-up" pulley available for the xx/xxA decks, P/N IH-126393-C1). The 44C/50C deck also comes from the factory with the aluminum bodied re-buildable taper roller bearing ST-745 spindle assemblies which are the official replacement for the water-pump style spindles.

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I'm working to achieve the same inter-changeability as Nic has achieved with his decks, with the modified 44 deck installed on my Model 149 (using the later style spindles and the "Patio Wheel kit" install) and the 44C deck on my Model 782 at the same time keeping the 50A as a backup for either machine.

As an aside, I don't seem to have as much trouble leveling the deck on the wide-frame "A" style undercarriage, I like its wider stance. I also like the fact that it is possible to remove the PTO belt from an "A" style undercarriage WITHOUT having to drop the deck as on the "C" style undercarriage. So I may retrofit the Model 782 with the "A" style under-carriage fitted to the mandatory 82 series mule drive, if that is possible. Once I realized that the under-carriage and the mule drive can be separated and swapped around, it made it much easier to configure the tractors to the various decks I've accumulated.
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Edit: To sum up: all three styles take the same blades and the same deck (spindle) belts (the 50" obviously is different than the 44"; but the 44" are the same, and the 50" are the same). The 44/50 and 44A/50A require a 3/8" thick PTO drive belt; while the 44C/50C takes a 5/8" thick PTO drive belt. The 44/50 and 44A/50A have skid bars left and right; the 44C/50C uses "Patio Wheels" up front left and right. All decks are specified for 7" rear guide wheels. The 44/50 and 44A/50A use the water-pump style spindle bearings; the 44C/50C employs re-buildable aluminum-bodied spindle bearings. Bottom Line: the 44C/50C embodies several improvements to the design, all of which can be retro-fitted to the 44/50 and 44A/50A series.
 
JEREMIAH - Please re-read the end of my last post. Couple comments you make are not 100% correct. My 50C deck for my 982 has the runners on both sides. Not the spherical wheels. It also has the waterpump bearing housings. It does have the 7" dia rear gauge wheels.

It may not be the original deck to my 982 but I suspect it is, and it looks like all the other 50 inch decks on 982 brochures.

I don't think the spherical wheels were available from IH, I think they can out after MTD took over.
 
Kraig-

I really like that pic of the guy on the 127 but they might have sold more if the female was on it....



Does anyone know where I could get some of those spherical wheels that are being discussed? I'd like to put some on my mower but I'm not sure where to look. Thanks
 
Daniel, see the colorful boxes at the top of the page? Those are the forum sponsors, CC Specialties carries the spherical wheels some of the others might have them as well. I agree on the 127 add...
 
DANIEL - CC/MTD offers a kit for installing those spherical wheels on the 44 & 50 inch decks. I have one for my 50C deck out in the shop. Even includes dimensions for installing them in the right locations. See one of the sponsors above or your local CC dealer.

I had to make & weld on my own brackets when I put them on my 38" deck.

Be careful, there's two styles of the wheels. One has a bronze bushing that's greasable, and yes, more money, but lasts much much longer than the style without the bushing that runs the plastic right on the wheel stud/bolt/axle.
 
I agree with Dennis on the runners on IH-manufactured decks. I used to have a 582 that came with a 44C deck. It had the runners on the front.

I'll add my two cents to the turfs or ags, chains or not discussion. Every winter I get caught with my pants down
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and don't have my chains on in time for the first snow. I don't know if I just have a momentary lapse of memory, but I'll try to push that first snow without the chains. Even if it is only a couple of inches I end up sitting and spinning. You definitely need chains on turf tires. I have a gravel driveway. My current chains are 4-link chains. I assume it is possible to buy additional cross chains to make these 2 link chains...where would I look?
 
Dennis Frisk: All right, I re-read your post to Nic Bextermueller, I didn't realize you had addressed the topic, or I would have included you in my greeting.
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What shall we say, then; are the "Patio Wheels" AND replacement ST-745 re-buildable aluminum spindle assemblies both MTD/CCC innovations? Do all 44C/50C decks made by IH have steel runners and water-pump style spindle bearings?

If there are different configurations of the 44C/50C deck, then the issue really gets confusing for the consumer --you and me.

What I find interesting is that, in the case of the 982, Parts Lookup shows the re-buildable spindle bearing called our as a "Service Kit." it also shows the mountings for the spherical "Patio" wheels, this for a Model 359 50C 50" Mower, 190-359-100 SGT. A 44" deck is not listed for the 982.

The same assembly is shown for a 782, although it is called out as Model 359 50C 50" Mower, 190-359-100 GT (the "Super" is dropped).

The Parts Lookup for the next earliest tractor series, the Quiet Line, lists a 44A 44" and 50A 50" 3 Blade Deck with the smaller "speed-up" pulley called our for those decks with S/N 81742 and above; it shows the water-pump style spindle bearings and the rounded flat-bar steel runners, or "skids."

So, according to Parts Lookup, as an objective reference, if your deck has the steel runners and the water-pump style bearings, it should be a 50A deck.
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The relevant Parts Lookup screen shots:

Model 359 50C Blades & Spindles (deck shown):

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44A/50A Blades & Spindles (deck not shown):

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44A/50A Deck:

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So, I've put up pictures, and manufacturer's documentation to backup my assertions of the xxA=runners and waterpump bearings; what would be interesting to see is pictures of yours, or other's decks with runners+waterpump bearings and a Tag ID of 44C or 50C. Because, again, the documents and the physical evidence I have access to say it ain't so, and Nic Bextermueller agrees with me!

I'm hereby challenging you to present your evidence!
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(All in the spirit of inquiry and for the edification of all, of course, no personal slight intended.)

Kevin Lindstedt: While I'm at it, I'll challenge you as well, oh, but you no longer have the 582, oh well, you're off the hook.
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