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Archive through September 23, 2014

IH Cub Cadet Forum

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A single 16hp in a 982? No way... I would think the only easy and acceptable swap would be a Kohler Mag18 or 20, Kohler Command 20, or the BS 23...

My Mags fire right up in the winter in the unheated shop. My KT. Forget about it... It needs ether and heat.
 
Here I thought we might be talking about a pre 1981 Cub Cadet like my dad's 1650 here.

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Yeah, I could see how a 1650 and 982 could be confused for being the same tractor...
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Wait, I need a clarification of Charlie's head banging. Was the 982 not IH built for one year or was he barely tolerating the mention of teledynes and airplanes...

BTW, I still don't like QL's. just a personal blurb for no reason. You fan's can keep them runnin' strong. They are not for me.
 
Charlie doesn't need to explain what he does to anyone!! BUT, Little Donnie Tanner knows why Charlie posted the head banger.
 
Ok, as long as it was Don T who was the cause of the head bashing and not me. I was confused for a while, didn't think I asked the wrong question in the wrong area!??

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Dennis,
Not too sure what the engine is like, it was decent for the longest time. I have never opened it up so do not know if it has old or new style interior parts? I think my biggest issue with it other than needing a good tune up, I think the carb is getting tired, the govenor does a lot of searching it seems, perhaps it needs rebuilding too? Just not sure how much money I want to sink into it or just bit the bullet and put a newer style engine in it with a warrenty? Been searching for another 82 series tractor to install the blower and cab on but haven't had much luck. So looking at possibly using this one. Just don't like the idea of salt on it and then watching it start to rust away thanks to the salt and crap from Canadian winters. Tough call. At least it is as long as I don't listen to the wife! If she had her way she'd clean the entire garage out and land a new tractor in it and settle things. Even though she likes her 100 a lot when it comes time to work outside!

WOMEN!

Nic,
My 982 is IH built, you are correct on that. So is my 100 and my 782!
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MIKE - The governor in the Onan is a disaster, poor design from the start. Onan used a ten fingered wheel made from plastic or nylon, which is fine... but they pressed it onto a smooth machined hub on the cam gear. The cam only spins at half engine speed, not very fast in the scheme of things. And since plastic expands FIVE times as much as the cast iron gear, when the engine warms up the finger wheel slips. Onan added a drive slot to the cam gear but not all finger wheels have the long finger to engage the slot.

The guys on the "Other forum across the street" claim it costs about $500 in just parts to fix the problem... new cam gear, new cam driving gear to be installed on the crankshaft, seals & gaskets. I honestly can't believe that an Onan engine would run a welder generator properly with the way their governors operate. The B48G in a 982 only has five steel ball bearing balls in the finger wheel, one in every other space, but some engines for other applications got one in every space. I would think that makes the most sense.... a 5/16 or 3/8" ball bearing costs what... 2 or 3 cents each? So maybe adding ten or fifteen cents worth of parts may have helped the governor work better.

I don't know if the new or old parts are better. The conn rods seem to be even more fragile than the rods in the bigger HP Kohler singles. I DO KNOW that Onan parts are terribly expensive. 3 yrs ago I got points & condenser for my 982... think the bill came to $45-$48... last spring it needed another tune-up, new points & condenser was up to $62 now.

Kohler has raised their parts prices to stupid levels in the last couple years. And they're patterning their pricing after what Onan has done for years. If Kohler & Onan want to hand their service and repair parts business over to companies like Stens, I think it's a STUPID move on their part, but I'm about done with OEM parts. Seems like the OEM's have gone off-shore to reduce costs and still raise parts prices 20-30% every year.
 
Well I don`t understand the
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from Charlie . So I did add some comments in Geezer's Garage . I put my comments in the proper place I think.
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Mike,

I would start with giving the Onan a tune up, dip clean and rebuild the carb, re-adjust the governor linkage and replace all ignition parts while you’re at it. If the engine still has good power, no knocks and is not a low flying crop duster, then I would continue to use. I think they are good engines. Any engine is only as good as it is serviced.

Dennis,

You have mentioned that your 982 was refurbished before you got it, did that include the engine? My 982 has been in my family since its purchase from IH, therefore I know exactly what has been done to it.
I have seen your broad statement before “plastic expands FIVE times as much as the cast iron gear” This sounds like you based that info on a coefficient for general purpose ABS plastic which is 0.000041”/F, the Onan part is likely fiber reinforced nylon which is 0.000017”/F (average, % glass fiber effects expansion rate). I looked at the ball spacer when I rebuilt my Onan (replaced weak rods and fix slipped cam bearing) and it is not just “plastic or nylon”. The expansion rate difference is more like 2-3 times. I will avoid discussion of the geometric tolerance in parts, but the design is not as bad as you make out. The use of “hi temp Loctite” is cheaper than the $500 fix and is really good enough. There are issues with any engine 30+ years old, hind sight is......... I will agree there could have been a positive/locking engagement between the gear and ball spacer. The use of balls in a governor is a common design scheme, hence the term running balls out. Ya I know it was a steam engine.
 
JIM - Yes, the engine in my 982 was freshly rebuilt when I got it. I didn't see the receipts, but it got new O/S pistons/rings, rods, bearings, intake manifold, carb rebuild, complete tune-up. The bill was close to $2000 in 1999 Dollars by a guy who had rebuilt several hundred of them. It ran really good when I first got it, but I'd like to get more than 125-150 hours out of $60 worth of points & condenser. I think that's more a Low Cost country problem than an Onan problem actually... last set of Kohler points/condenser I replaced had about that same numbers of hours and running issues.

I really haven't had the finger wheel in my hands, but I've read every word in a l-o-n-g topic, something like 400+ posts on the other forum, which included lots of high resolution pic's. So I can't say yes or no to the fiber reinforced plastic material, but this is the first time anybody has mentioned fiber reinforcing and the finger wheel in the same post. I have heard of several of them breaking which I would not expect of a glass fiber reinforced part.

Several posters asked if Loctite would stick the wheel to the cam hub well enough, guess the answer is yes. The new finger wheels have a longer finger that goes in the recess in the outer rim of the gear where the teeth are hobbed to positively drive the wheel. One poster posted a pic of his new parts.

We used a lot of different plastic materials at the food & chemical processing equipment co. I worked at. But in food equipment, glass filled & reinforced material is not used in product contact applications, and I'm not sure using it inside an engine is wise either. It's VERY abrasive. Lots of the radio controlled vehicles SON raced years ago were made with glass reinforced materials. A glass filled plastic gear wears out the cut steel spur gear it runs against! By design, the finger wheel should not wear, but if it spins enough on the hub of the cam gear, glass fibers could get into the engine oil and wipe out the bearings in short order. I had a company mechanic drop a tiny piece of fiberglass insulation off the dog house into the top of the open cylinder head on a 1978 IH S2200 semi-tractor, and the 290 HP 855 CID Cummins ate itself up in about 10,000 miles. It Didn't quite get me home one night... My Wife had to drive 65 miles one way to rescue me.

The critical temp. on my Onan is around 40-45 degrees, above that temp the finger wheel gets warm enough to expand and slip, below that temp I have a governor. I have a piece of plastic that followed me home from work that I'm going to use to repair the finger wheel some day... the convex plate the ball bearings push against is removed, a small flat piece of plastic is shaped to fit into the rectangular recess on the cam gear and lock the finger wheel so it can't slip, then the plate is installed and keeps the plastic piece in place. Simple and effective repair. The governor has never really worked well since I had the tractor. I noticed ten-twelve yrs. ago that the engine would slowly loose RPM when driving into taller grass, but a quick jab on the throttle and the engine sped right back up... and while turning on the ends of the lands I was mowing, the engine would over-speed.

Supposedly, Onan/Cummins no longer services the parts of the governor separately, only the complete cam gear with the governor installed is available. Guess so they can charge more.

I REALLY like my 982... wish it had power steering, but for most mowing it steers fine. My 982 had more hours on it when I bought it than I thought... the trunnion had been worn almost completely out and fixed by installing a cotter key to hold the springs... When the cotter key broke and I had NO speed control or ability to stop... I repaired it with a nylon tie strap and ran it for 5-6 months that way. I've fixed it correctly now. Cork gasket leaks a bit when the hydro is full, doesn't leak when it's low. Never had a seconds trouble with the tractor other than the trunnion.
 
Dennis,

I have read on some other forums that Onan did have problems with one of the ball spacer suppliers. Guys who have worked on Onans since the 70’s say there were a lot of failures with non-fiber filled ones. Don't really know the exact time frame, late 70's - early 80's. I guess it is possible your engine got a bad one. There also seems to be one made of metal in the beginning of B series production.
Jim
 

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