Archive through October 22, 2012

[jbaker]

I like the fact that Jeremiah and others will use the cubs as lab mice. If they didn't we would not get list of capatable parts that are not OEM but will still work. For example isn't there a list of compatible spark plug and hydro filters?

I guess if there willing to try and share an excperience why not post it.

And that is not to thumb the sponsers just offering an alternitive

I hope for some comments on the severity of the wear on my previos post picturesof IH CUB CADET frame parts

Wow just missed the archive bug

 

[dfrisk]

JEFF - the pic's of your 128 frame, the wear on the crossbar where the sissor bar from the mule drive bears on it, That's an easy fix with a welder. The WF's are harder since it's part of the frame, but my NF's unbolt and I've fixed my 72 twice, the last time I modified the sissor arm by welding on a 1" x 3" extension to it like the WF mule drives and as IH found, reduces that wear a lot.

The quick attach ears would be harder to weld material into but not impossible. Nice thing with the bare frame you have, you can position the frame to weld easier.

As each CC gets older the same things normally wear but different than most lesser brands you can fix them. The durability of the drive train makes fixing them worth while.

SON wanted to convert the 70 into a semi-72 by making it able to use a quick-attach mule drive, etc. I haven't done that yet, but with some steel and a welder it should be easy. Saying that, it might almost be easier to make NEW ears and weld them on your 128 frame.

As long as certain areas of these tractors are still in good shape, like the engine mount holes, tranny mount holes, etc., the rest can be fixed. One thing you notice, the frames are made from heavy enough steel that you can weld on frames left outside to weather & rust for decades. Now the lighter guage steel used on the steering pedistal, that might not always be the case.

 

[stanner]

Jeff,
that damage is certainly fixable... My 149 was worn way worse than that..

used a copper sheet and a peice of pipe, and welded the wallowed out area back to new with the MIG welder.. Filed the excess off and is like new...

Your other worn area can be welded up, or a new pieice of stock can be substituted...

 

[dtanner]

By Scott Tanner... Looking for "round tuits"...
The end result IS worth the effort !

 

[rberg]

thanks for the advice on manuals I'll check them out.

 

[jbaker]

Scott/Dennis thanks I will print this page for my cub binder

 

[dfrisk]

SCOTT - Nice work on repairing the quick-attach ears. The copper for those back-up plates & bars are not cheap anymore, but they make jobs like that so much easier they're worth it.

 

[bwittman]

Jeff,

You acknowledgement of Jeremiah and others who experiment with parts is noble. I agree. When we need to get going, we do what we must to accomplish the task at hand. It is good to have the knowledge that certain parts will work when in a pinch.

There is something to say about OEM parts. The sponsors sell them, along with local suppliers who sell OEM or equivalent parts, such as NAPA or other parts stores who sell quality replacement parts such as Standard Motor Products, Bosch, Niehoff and others.

It seems to me that it is just as easy to order a coil or condenser for a Kohler K-whatever series engine is being repaired, as it is to order a coil or condenser for a 1968 Ford and make that work. Although they may work, there are differences that we may, or may not, be aware of; and in using these substitutes, we run the risk if damage to the engine that we don't want.

Long ago, I saw an ad for Caterpillar replacement parts. I never forgot it. It read: Make-fit parts won't fit. Will-fit parts might fit. Caterpillar parts DO fit.

I could go on and on. But what I have learned over the years, from experience, from my late father, who was a service craftsman; and from others, is to use the part intended for the application, not try to make something work. The long-term benefit will pay off in the end.


The only things that should be green and yellow are the NDSU Bison. GO Bison!

 

[hydroharry]

Wayne - 12.2V should be enough but it actually sounds a bit weak to me. I'm thinking most batteries will read about 12.6V. Still suggest you try another one.

Scott T - that is sure some nice work on that frame. I think Jeff better just hang his back up in his shop for a future repair or project.

Brian W - hey I wish I'd seen that Caterpillar ad. I'll have to remember that one.

 

[nbextermueller]

Brian, do you realize that you can put your Bison comment as your signature in your profile, don't you?

That way it puts that little black line there and we all won't keep reading your signature. And down there you can still show your pride.

 

[kide]

Jeremiah... yes, it is a forum... I'm glad you cleared that up - no #2 there.

.. I guess asking for accuracy in posted information makes me the Correct Police, but I think the Admins get to make the official assignments..

. My 129 is rolling over when I told it is was now considered my show tractor (I actually told it it was now a "trailer queen..")

 

[dfrisk]

BRIAN W. - Interesting comment about CAT service parts. There's a machine shop near here, actually right over in PAUL Roessler's back yard that makes the spools for hyd spool valves used on about EVERY piece of equipment CAT ever made. They are "Dock-to-Stock".... meaning right from THEIR dock, direct to the dealers shelf, no shipment to CAT's warehouse, no incoming or out-going inspection from the warehouse, and much less handling & freight, chance for damage, and COST. Parts come properly packaged in CAT boxes/packaging, CAT part number and a lot number laser etched on the part. Truely one of the best machine shops I've ever been in. PAUL - It's QMI on Unique Drive.

Several suppliers that I've delt with have done a lot of work for CAT. One supplier told me that CAT makes 4 to 5 times the selling price of a piece of equipment in PROFIT off service & repair parts for that piece of equipment. Yes, CAT parts are high priced, BUT most of it lasts 40-50 years too. And in terrible operating conditions.

Far as service parts for these old Kohlers, as long as we keep buying them Kohler will still keep buying & selling them to us. Far as condensors for a K-series, they lead a pretty easy life, only charging/dicharging 1800 time a minute, or 30 times a second. The condensors in a V8 engine can charge/discharge up to 20,000 times a minute, or 333 times a second, figuring a 5000 RPM engine speed. If a better condensor for a Kohler application is available I'd want to know about it, but just getting a good 250-300 hours from the OEM condensor would be nice. Just like the Bosch blue coils, if something else works better I'll give it a try, but until somebody does the duribility testing and I can get good OEM parts, I'll try to be a good customer to Kohler.

 

[nbextermueller]

Gerry I,
IH Cub Cadet and Trailer Queen shouldn't ever be used in the same sentence unless you start with "My" and put "isn't a" between them.

Dennis F,
Those Cat warranties are nothing. Until last year I worked for American Railcar Industries designing railcars for a living, and we designed and warrantied some railcars for 30years or 3 million miles. Which ever came first. And that's every weld and bolt. Imagine pulling millions of pounds for 3 million miles and only needing brake pads and the occasional paint job! AAR rules state the everything be tested to 10 g's vertically and 20 g's horizontally at a minimum. Including vibration must be less than 15hz. It was fun.

To stay on topic, I put whatever I have to fix whatever I need on my cubs. Sometimes that calls for OEM parts, sometimes I improvise. But I can't believe there has been this much bickering over a silly black tube. What if said he was considering buying a 6 pin driver and clutch. This place would rave over him finding a part that will make it last years longer. And it doesn't say IH, CC, or Kohler anywhere on it.

I also just picked up a Mag 20 and P/S for my 782. I'm really excited. The purchase also came with a 60" Haban for my Super! Talk about a beefy deck. That thing is huge! And weights a ton.

 

[jsalatino]

What do you guys use to flush out your g.d. trans/rear with? I was wondering if I used kerosene or diesel if it would hurt any of the seals in it.I know a few peole that talked about using both,but thought I would ask you guys first. I've got 2 I want to do. My 104 and 100. the 104's po had changed it from the looks of it.I've checked it a few times,its never been low,but it looks like they used oil,from what I can see anyways.The 100,the guy I got it off off must have cleaned it somtime before I got it,it looked good,wasnt very much crud in the bottom,looked new,But I do want to flush it out b4 I start messin with it.I did change the axle housings out with ones from a 104,only cause they had needle bearings instead of bushings.There not on ,but i put the old ones back on along with a different reduction housing to keep it sealed up,its basically ready to be cleaned up & primed,I made some covers for the front and back outta sheet metal to keep it sealed up,there isnt any fluid in it,but I have coated the internals with new tranny fluid so they wouldnt sit there and rust,Every month or two I coat em. The axle housings I'm going to use are already primed & painted ready to put the new bearings & seals in, Any suggestions would be apreceiated bigtime. thanks

 

[kide]

And BTW, since I can't mention it without being labeled, anyone else care to correct the information on the last page concerning how a point/coil ignition functions? (hint - when does the coil discharge, giving you a spark?)

 

[nbextermueller]

I caught that too... But let it pass

 

[sblunier]

Nic,

Let me know if you need any help on the 782. I've been there and done both on my 782...really makes a nice machine out of it!!!!

 

[mgonitzke]

Gerry-
Since the points are set to break at 20 degrees BTDC, then clearly the answer is that the coil discharges when the points open.

I better be careful, or people will start thinking I know something about electricity

 

[jchamberlin]

Gerry: I'll take a stab at it.

I'm not sure his explanation was exactly correct, but then I'm not sure either what was exactly wrong with it.

Thinking about it . . . I suppose that . . . the primary function of the coil is to multiply the voltage from the primary winding to the secondary winding. The primary current finds its path to ground through the points, as long as they are closed, when the points open, I think the following things happen:

1. Since the primary winding is an inductor, the polarity of the voltage INSTANTLY reverses.

2. The DC current starts charging the "condenser" (actually the component is called a capacitor, but it can be conceptualized as "condensing" the electricity, see below), which takes a period of time (there's a formula to calculate the time, but I don't have my textbook out).

3. In this rather neat little system, the points are opening ever wider, but the voltage across the capacitor is also growing until such point as it gains the "potential" (another word for voltage) to leap across the gap of the open points, which, if you're watching, appears to the naked eye as a tiny spark, no more than 12 volts, and likely a bit less.

4. On the next point I'm not clear, but when the spark jumps the open points gap, the field around the primary coil either collapses or reverses direction again, but in either case a much larger spark is "induced" in the secondary winding which can only find its path to ground across the electrode at the spark plug.

I think it is an awesome example of an electro-mechanical system which demonstrates the properties of both inductors and capacitors. Technically, it is an "LC Network" and I think it is a shame they never taught us the finer workings of it in Community College, but they did equip us to understand enough about it to know that without the condenser you will never get a spark at the plug, and if the points don't open, you'll never charge the condenser, and if the point gap is too large, there is not enough time available to "reset the system" by letting it "dwell" long enough for the capacitor to lose its charge through the closed points.

Note there has to be voltage at the capacitor in order to charge it, and there is no voltage at the capacitor when the points are closed. Capacitors block current, but pass voltage; conversely, inductors pass DC current, but store DC voltage (although they reverse its polarity).

At least that is my theory about how it works, but if you know better, I would be happy to hear it explained, as I like to learn things as much as the next guy.

Fine day here in Eastern North Carolina, and I'm stepping out to enjoy it and study up on setting the governor on a Kohler M18.

Edit 1: Never mind, I see you explained it.

Edit 2: Final thought, if you need your tractor to do some work ANY condensor is better than NO condenser, that's all I'm saying.

 

[dfrisk]

NIC - Last co. I worked for had a 30 year design life to failure goal for their product, but it was smaller than a railroad car.... only about the size of a small kitchen appliance like a toaster ;-). But we had UL, FDA, NSA, CSA, and some other regulatory agencies requirements to meet that I forget about now, but not NEAR as neat as railroad cars. The thing with rail cars is you tie a hundred loaded cars behind one car, then hook 2-3-4 locomotives to the front and GO. And that front car still has the same 30 yr/3 million mile warranty. I can't think of ANYTHING else that gets used like that, has to carry or pull it own weight plus hundreds more like it.

From what I've heard from people who have them, the 6-pin clutch & disc is an On/Off switch, not a good set-up for working tractors, but O-K for pullers. But the same co. than makes those made the clutch in my #72 that I mowed with this summer. When I got it, it had a stronger (red) spring in it, which required the lengthened clutch lever, and was a real pain to adjust so it released and didn't drag, and didn't spin the throw-out bearing with the clutch engaged, and also was an on/off switch. When I destroyed the throw-out bearing last summer from the crazy high disengagement forces I went back to the stock spring and clutch lever. MUCH better for a daily driver, but I still have the 4140 pre-hard alloy steel drive shaft & billet clutch plates. With 10 & 12 HP or more, the rear hole in the OEM drive shafts wallows out when they're made from 1018 steel, so I'm curious how long the alloy shaft will last. The OEM drive shafts may not be a problem if all you do is mow, but stopping & starting does take their toll on them and if you pull heavy draft loads and/or run them 100+ hrs/year, the hole wallows out, hammers the roll pins till they break. And the stock spring with a little shimming and stock friction disc gives me enough torque transfer to easily spin my rear tires with 23-8.50 Firestones & 70+# of weight per wheel even on rough finished dry concrete. If I need more clutch, I can shim the OEM spring some more.

I can't speak for everyone here, but Me, I'm not against making things try to work better, last longer, and if it saves me money, that's even better. If something breaks, I want to get it fixed NOW. So common locally available parts are used here as well. But I've BT-DT with some parts like cheap coils, etc. Not going there again.