Guys, I remember a couple of weeks ago I mentioned that an older gentleman told me to use hi-test in everything and with that I never would need stabilizer. From there the topic had to be taken to the sandbox and went on and on. I personally belive that hi-test helps and I have never used stabilizer in anything anyway. I've always known to keep metal gas tanks full because of condensation but the best thing about this whole topic is it gives us all reason to get on a cub and "exercise" the carb to keep it clean. How can the wife argue with that? I know that we all have our "ways" but isn't it interesting how we can cary on.
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I'll toss
towards my 9:53am post that I forgot to mention. In my snowmobiles I always used premium gasoline, the Cubs, tiller, chainsaw, string trimmers, generator, AC 620 all get regular.
KENDELL, KRAIG - The article I read about the 2-stroke fuel being half the lubricity after two weeks was written by GORDON JENNINGS of CYCLE Magazine back in about 1972. Gotta remember I had an AMERACHI Harley-Davidson/AMF back then... Bowling machines, Motorcycles and EVIL KENEVIL may not have been a good mix. My 1970 125 H-D RAPIDO blew up Twice by June 1972. Once was due to fuel & wrong heat range of spark plug, second time due to too quick of rebuild of the engine by the first four-time winner of the Daytona 200 Motorcycle Classic race.
My Bad.... I really wanted to get a 250 H-G SPRINT but the cost to keep the 125 running was more than I could afford.
Guy that I went to HS with ran His 125 H-D from Geneseo, IL to the Grand Canyon & back without a problem. Another person PUSHED His H-D Sprint 350 to the Grand Canyon & most of the way home that same summer.
Anyhow, anyone have an XR-750 H-D for sale send Me an e-mail. or I'd also consider a Triumph/BSA 350-twin. HECK, I'd even consider a '72 CB-350 Honda!
My Bad.... I really wanted to get a 250 H-G SPRINT but the cost to keep the 125 running was more than I could afford.
Guy that I went to HS with ran His 125 H-D from Geneseo, IL to the Grand Canyon & back without a problem. Another person PUSHED His H-D Sprint 350 to the Grand Canyon & most of the way home that same summer.
Anyhow, anyone have an XR-750 H-D for sale send Me an e-mail. or I'd also consider a Triumph/BSA 350-twin. HECK, I'd even consider a '72 CB-350 Honda!
kide
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Dennis:
Ahhh - written by the tech god hisself!!! In '72 there were a lot of different 2-stroke oils, most of them non-synthetic.. I'd be surprised if a good bean oil/gas mix lasted that long before breakdown (but it smelled soooo good). I'd take another Yammie XT500 myself, or my 550 Honda 4 or a 350 4 (Supersport, of course). I miss my '72 DT1, too, but not the wife's DT175.. On oil, I use Tanaka now, in everything that's 2 stroke..
On another on-topic oil subject, do the Hytran substitutes that the farm stores sell have the same hydroscopic qualities as Hytran??
Ahhh - written by the tech god hisself!!! In '72 there were a lot of different 2-stroke oils, most of them non-synthetic.. I'd be surprised if a good bean oil/gas mix lasted that long before breakdown (but it smelled soooo good). I'd take another Yammie XT500 myself, or my 550 Honda 4 or a 350 4 (Supersport, of course). I miss my '72 DT1, too, but not the wife's DT175.. On oil, I use Tanaka now, in everything that's 2 stroke..
On another on-topic oil subject, do the Hytran substitutes that the farm stores sell have the same hydroscopic qualities as Hytran??
I'm finally getting around to parting out my "heirloom" 102. The engine and transmission were toast, and the clutch was a rusty mess when I pulled the engine out. Still, Its got some good parts to put on the shelf, and has already donated to my other cubs as well.
Parting is such sweet sorrow
Parting is such sweet sorrow
This what do with my gas for all my small motors....
Some of this infomation was found in some Briggs and Stratton manuals that I used when I taught a small motor class to high school students.
I went to a 30 day gas rule. It is a simple thing to follow. Any gas (2 and 4 cycle gas)that is over 30 days old is added to my Suburban or Monte Carlo's fuel tank. I will add the correct amount fuel stablizer to my bulk containers before I fill them. Two good fuel stablizers are the one made by Briggs and Stratton and Sta-Bil. I use Sta-Bil mainly because it is cheaper in my area than Briggs and Stratton stablizer. I try not to buy anymore fuel than I plan to use in a month time. Another thing I like to do is shake the fuel container before I add any gas to my small motors. I have notice the oil in my 2 cycle gas likes to settle to the bottom of the fuel container.
How you store your fuel is important too. All my bulk fuel containers are sealed units. My containers are stored in a cool dried place in my shop. I do not leave my containers sit on the floor. The floor in shop is the coolest part of my shop. I like to place my containers on a piece of wood. I'm not sure...I think it helps prevents the dampness of the floor transfering to my fuel containers.
Where you buy you fuel is important too. I like to keep the small guy/Mom and Pop business going. This is one time I don't I buy my fuel from a Mom and Pop low volume station. I buy my fuel from a name brand station that does volume sales. I don't fill my containers or autos when the bulk delivery truck is refilling the bulk tanks. I stay away Sterling-BP fuel stations...they have the most additives in their fuel. I run 87 octane in most of my small motors unless the manual for the motor requires a higher grade. I haven't had any problems running the 10% ethanol blended fuel. I will turn the fuel off and leave the motor idle for a minute before I shut them down.
Been using the 30 day gas rule for the last 8 years with no fuel related problems. This may or may not work for you....it works for me...that is all that counts.
Some of this infomation was found in some Briggs and Stratton manuals that I used when I taught a small motor class to high school students.
I went to a 30 day gas rule. It is a simple thing to follow. Any gas (2 and 4 cycle gas)that is over 30 days old is added to my Suburban or Monte Carlo's fuel tank. I will add the correct amount fuel stablizer to my bulk containers before I fill them. Two good fuel stablizers are the one made by Briggs and Stratton and Sta-Bil. I use Sta-Bil mainly because it is cheaper in my area than Briggs and Stratton stablizer. I try not to buy anymore fuel than I plan to use in a month time. Another thing I like to do is shake the fuel container before I add any gas to my small motors. I have notice the oil in my 2 cycle gas likes to settle to the bottom of the fuel container.
How you store your fuel is important too. All my bulk fuel containers are sealed units. My containers are stored in a cool dried place in my shop. I do not leave my containers sit on the floor. The floor in shop is the coolest part of my shop. I like to place my containers on a piece of wood. I'm not sure...I think it helps prevents the dampness of the floor transfering to my fuel containers.
Where you buy you fuel is important too. I like to keep the small guy/Mom and Pop business going. This is one time I don't I buy my fuel from a Mom and Pop low volume station. I buy my fuel from a name brand station that does volume sales. I don't fill my containers or autos when the bulk delivery truck is refilling the bulk tanks. I stay away Sterling-BP fuel stations...they have the most additives in their fuel. I run 87 octane in most of my small motors unless the manual for the motor requires a higher grade. I haven't had any problems running the 10% ethanol blended fuel. I will turn the fuel off and leave the motor idle for a minute before I shut them down.
Been using the 30 day gas rule for the last 8 years with no fuel related problems. This may or may not work for you....it works for me...that is all that counts.
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Kendell-
I had a Yamaha DT100 when I was a kid. We bought it used from a lady who's husband bought it for her even though she didn't want a bike, and didn't want to "ride" along with him. It had just over 400 miles on it and looked like new. I kind of miss it!
Don-
Did somebody actually WELD another shaft to that Hydro pump?!?!?!?!?
I had a Yamaha DT100 when I was a kid. We bought it used from a lady who's husband bought it for her even though she didn't want a bike, and didn't want to "ride" along with him. It had just over 400 miles on it and looked like new. I kind of miss it!
Don-
Did somebody actually WELD another shaft to that Hydro pump?!?!?!?!?
J
jott
Guest
Don T,
easy you say. I might as well be looking into the human brain. I havnt EVER gone any farther into hydros than taking them out of the tractor and cleaning them up. I never have seen , much less have taken the pump apart from the housing. If I have to do this, am going to go strictly by the book and follow every instruction it says. I am currently just worrying about getting the other tranny in the tractor for now. more progress pictures to follow tomorow, if i have time. I am going the the national toy show in Dyersville,Iowa this weekend. I have SO much stuff to get done its not even funny.
kide
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- Gerry Ide
Man am I glad I don't have to go through all that with gas around here - most of ours comes from Marathon - they must be doing something right. I buy 87 octane for everything and just run it through the motors..
I borrowed this from another web site:
What's in Stabil?
Answer:
Low odor paraffinic solvent
Dearomatized kerosine
The best theory on Stabil is it forms a floating layer on top of the fuel stopping oxidation and evaporation of the light hydrocarbons in gas. More than likey that's what the oil in Seaform is doing...There maybe other stuff in both but this is the stuff they have to list as dangerous
Art: worst thing I ever did was put my wife on that @#$%^%$ short wheelbase DT175 - it handled like crap in sand. I should have put her on the DT1 and got a DT360 for myself !! She had some "interesting" falls and still hates going through sand ---- in her Sportrac!! She flinches!!!
I borrowed this from another web site:
What's in Stabil?
Answer:
Low odor paraffinic solvent
Dearomatized kerosine
The best theory on Stabil is it forms a floating layer on top of the fuel stopping oxidation and evaporation of the light hydrocarbons in gas. More than likey that's what the oil in Seaform is doing...There maybe other stuff in both but this is the stuff they have to list as dangerous
Art: worst thing I ever did was put my wife on that @#$%^%$ short wheelbase DT175 - it handled like crap in sand. I should have put her on the DT1 and got a DT360 for myself !! She had some "interesting" falls and still hates going through sand ---- in her Sportrac!! She flinches!!!
kide
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- Gerry Ide
Man am I glad I don't have to go through all that with gas around here - most of ours comes from Marathon - they must be doing something right. I buy 87 octane for everything and just run it through the motors..
I borrowed this from another web site:
What's in Stabil?
Answer:
Low odor paraffinic solvent
Dearomatized kerosine
The best theory on Stabil is it forms a floating layer on top of the fuel stopping oxidation and evaporation of the light hydrocarbons in gas. More than likey that's what the oil in Seaform is doing...There maybe other stuff in both but this is the stuff they have to list as dangerous.
And from another site:
Both MMO and Stabil contain a phenolic antixidant. In MMO it is really, I think, oil of wintergreen. In Stabil, it is an analog of BHT, a hindered phenol. Phenolics like to react with O2 to form quinones, a very highly colored substance. As such, they are sacrificial anti-oxidants. They get used up.
Art: worst thing I ever did was put my wife on that @#$%^%$ short wheelbase DT175 - it handled like crap in sand. I should have put her on the DT1 and got a DT360 for myself !! She had some "interesting" falls and still hates going through sand ---- in her Sportrac!! She flinches!!!
I borrowed this from another web site:
What's in Stabil?
Answer:
Low odor paraffinic solvent
Dearomatized kerosine
The best theory on Stabil is it forms a floating layer on top of the fuel stopping oxidation and evaporation of the light hydrocarbons in gas. More than likey that's what the oil in Seaform is doing...There maybe other stuff in both but this is the stuff they have to list as dangerous.
And from another site:
Both MMO and Stabil contain a phenolic antixidant. In MMO it is really, I think, oil of wintergreen. In Stabil, it is an analog of BHT, a hindered phenol. Phenolics like to react with O2 to form quinones, a very highly colored substance. As such, they are sacrificial anti-oxidants. They get used up.
Art: worst thing I ever did was put my wife on that @#$%^%$ short wheelbase DT175 - it handled like crap in sand. I should have put her on the DT1 and got a DT360 for myself !! She had some "interesting" falls and still hates going through sand ---- in her Sportrac!! She flinches!!!
Dale M
Well its nice to know i`am doing something right with my Cubs (I will turn the fuel off and leave the motor idle for a minute before I shut them down. )
Art ,
yep PO welded at least 8" to the pump shaft. I will lay it all out in the am and show you what the drive shaft looked like before.
But I`am just as bad really.
what going to use a CV drive shaft out of a 1862 with CV joints on both ends and bolt that in my 1512 . should work great I hope. I know its not stock lol
Later Don T
Kendell Ide once was enuf lol
Well its nice to know i`am doing something right with my Cubs (I will turn the fuel off and leave the motor idle for a minute before I shut them down. )
Art ,
yep PO welded at least 8" to the pump shaft. I will lay it all out in the am and show you what the drive shaft looked like before.
But I`am just as bad really.
what going to use a CV drive shaft out of a 1862 with CV joints on both ends and bolt that in my 1512 . should work great I hope. I know its not stock lol
Later Don T
Kendell Ide once was enuf lol
spoke to the retired dodge mechanic that started the bad gas discussion, here is what he said,
they are adding water and alcohol to regular gasoline to meet EPA requirements. the alcohol bonds to the gas, water bonds to the alcohol. bonding meaning the water will not separate like free water does in a sediment bowl.
the water rusts the floats and fuel bowl, destroying them quickly. as little as 6 months if gas left in a stored engine.
the water destabilizes the gas, causing the varnish gummy deposit in as little as one day of storage in a stored engine.
cars do not have a problem with it because it only sits in the tank, and water bonded to alcohol pases through the fuel injectors. this is how dry gas works.
the solution is either gas stabilizer and running engine out of gas after each use, or use grades higher then regular, which meet the EPA REGS easier and do not have water added to them.
his best guess as to why many of you are not having problems is because we do not all get the same blend of gas. some parts of the country have lower EPA regs due to lower pollution.
now dont shoot the messenger, i am only repeating what he said.
and, he, like me, used to leaver gas in for a season, only running dry for storage, but had to change when everything gummed up and he discovered what they wee putting in the gas.
next time i get gas i will read the warnings on the pumps. i use several stations in my area and i know at least one has an "oxygenated during winter" warning.
i will see what is added for my area.
they are adding water and alcohol to regular gasoline to meet EPA requirements. the alcohol bonds to the gas, water bonds to the alcohol. bonding meaning the water will not separate like free water does in a sediment bowl.
the water rusts the floats and fuel bowl, destroying them quickly. as little as 6 months if gas left in a stored engine.
the water destabilizes the gas, causing the varnish gummy deposit in as little as one day of storage in a stored engine.
cars do not have a problem with it because it only sits in the tank, and water bonded to alcohol pases through the fuel injectors. this is how dry gas works.
the solution is either gas stabilizer and running engine out of gas after each use, or use grades higher then regular, which meet the EPA REGS easier and do not have water added to them.
his best guess as to why many of you are not having problems is because we do not all get the same blend of gas. some parts of the country have lower EPA regs due to lower pollution.
now dont shoot the messenger, i am only repeating what he said.
and, he, like me, used to leaver gas in for a season, only running dry for storage, but had to change when everything gummed up and he discovered what they wee putting in the gas.
next time i get gas i will read the warnings on the pumps. i use several stations in my area and i know at least one has an "oxygenated during winter" warning.
i will see what is added for my area.
in trying to find info on line to support my mechanic friend's claim, i found this,
http://www.teamrsm.com/files/Ethanol_dos_and_donts.pdf
which does not say the oil companies are adding water, but does discuss the ethanol absorbing water and the water and ethanol destroying stored engines.
http://www.teamrsm.com/files/Ethanol_dos_and_donts.pdf
which does not say the oil companies are adding water, but does discuss the ethanol absorbing water and the water and ethanol destroying stored engines.
DONALD T. - Any time Norton bikes are mentioned somebody HAS to bring up "Miss Norton" in the old magazine ads. I wonder where She is now and what She looks like?
ALSO Donald, those CV joints from the 1862 would be an excellent improvement to Your 1512.
ART, KENDELL - About 3 yrs ago I was at the Harley dealer on the east side of Denver by the airport. They had a restored 125 Rapido hanging from the ceiling on display. I think it was a '71, just a bit different than My '70. I really can't understand why anyone would want one now?
I bought a used '73 RD-350 Yamaha summer of '76 when I graduated from college. For a small light street bike it was awesome! Reed-valve engine, oil injection, 6-speed trans. one of the first Yamaha bikes with a disc frt brake. It'd stop as hard as it'd accelerate. Sold it in about '78 or '79.
I got my '73 OSSA 250 Six Day Replica Enduro bike for $100 in summer of '83. It had sat for 4-5 yrs and I had it running in an hour. Everything Cycle Mag. said was wrong with it from the factory had been fixed. Great trail bike. IMHO the fiberglass tank, side panels, fenders, etc. made it the Best looking bike made, but new they were almost $1500 and Kids in My town didn't buy $1500 dirt bikes! But 10 yrs old and $100 I could afford.
It was amazing how many miles of good riding trails I found within a couple miles of my house in East Moline. I had it "Somewhat Street Legal" and licensed, the battery had been removed and the charging system to run the lights took some time to get perfected. Eventually the magnets in the MOTOPLAT CDI ignition got weak and it got hard to start. I gave it away to an old co-worker. I "Googled" OSSA 250 SDR a couple years ago. It would have been worth about $1500 to $2000 at the time!
ANYHOW, back to the gas topic. You All can run what works for You! Like IH said for 50 yrs, "Buy Clean Fuel, Keep It Clean!"
ALSO Donald, those CV joints from the 1862 would be an excellent improvement to Your 1512.
ART, KENDELL - About 3 yrs ago I was at the Harley dealer on the east side of Denver by the airport. They had a restored 125 Rapido hanging from the ceiling on display. I think it was a '71, just a bit different than My '70. I really can't understand why anyone would want one now?
I bought a used '73 RD-350 Yamaha summer of '76 when I graduated from college. For a small light street bike it was awesome! Reed-valve engine, oil injection, 6-speed trans. one of the first Yamaha bikes with a disc frt brake. It'd stop as hard as it'd accelerate. Sold it in about '78 or '79.
I got my '73 OSSA 250 Six Day Replica Enduro bike for $100 in summer of '83. It had sat for 4-5 yrs and I had it running in an hour. Everything Cycle Mag. said was wrong with it from the factory had been fixed. Great trail bike. IMHO the fiberglass tank, side panels, fenders, etc. made it the Best looking bike made, but new they were almost $1500 and Kids in My town didn't buy $1500 dirt bikes! But 10 yrs old and $100 I could afford.
It was amazing how many miles of good riding trails I found within a couple miles of my house in East Moline. I had it "Somewhat Street Legal" and licensed, the battery had been removed and the charging system to run the lights took some time to get perfected. Eventually the magnets in the MOTOPLAT CDI ignition got weak and it got hard to start. I gave it away to an old co-worker. I "Googled" OSSA 250 SDR a couple years ago. It would have been worth about $1500 to $2000 at the time!
ANYHOW, back to the gas topic. You All can run what works for You! Like IH said for 50 yrs, "Buy Clean Fuel, Keep It Clean!"
kide
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Dennis:
Speaking of Cycle World, you aren't in the Cooksville area are you? Taking the VStar out this morning to the monthly meeting of retired co-workers ...it's 38 degrees here,right now.
Don T:
I still haven't done anything about the butchered input shaft on my 149... I'm waiting for pics of your project..
I guess (hope) we run out of gas on gas, again ..(sorry Charlie.)
Speaking of Cycle World, you aren't in the Cooksville area are you? Taking the VStar out this morning to the monthly meeting of retired co-workers ...it's 38 degrees here,right now.
Don T:
I still haven't done anything about the butchered input shaft on my 149... I'm waiting for pics of your project..
I guess (hope) we run out of gas on gas, again ..(sorry Charlie.)
The 4 major gas stations in my area are Marathon, Sterling/BP, Shell and Speedway. Marathon has the least amount of additives in their fuel. I get the best fuel ecomony using Marathon gas. Sterling/BP has the most additives in their fuel. I found this fact out the hard way...$400 later because the fuel injection system in my Impala was partly plug from their additive package. I had problems in the pass with frozen gas lines using Shell gas. Fuel mileage isn't that great on Shell gas in my area. Speedway's gas must be everyone elses rejected gas-poor fuel milage, no power and spark knock is some of the problems I have on Speedway gas.
If you look at Kohler's FAQs about 2/3s of the way down
http://www.kohlerengines.com/maintenance/faqs.htm
you will notice about the question about fuel additive(s) and Kohler's response.
Sea Foam is an additive...and a poor one for small motors. I did try sea foam once. I figured a plow day would be a good place to try it out. My 100 would die and and my 149 was way down on power. I drained both tanks and replace the gas with non sea foam gas. Both ran like they should with non sea foam gas in them. The sea foam and non sea foam gas was pump at the same time.
Another interresting point is most gas line antifreeze and water remover products contain alcohol in them.
If you look at Kohler's FAQs about 2/3s of the way down
http://www.kohlerengines.com/maintenance/faqs.htm
you will notice about the question about fuel additive(s) and Kohler's response.
Sea Foam is an additive...and a poor one for small motors. I did try sea foam once. I figured a plow day would be a good place to try it out. My 100 would die and and my 149 was way down on power. I drained both tanks and replace the gas with non sea foam gas. Both ran like they should with non sea foam gas in them. The sea foam and non sea foam gas was pump at the same time.
Another interresting point is most gas line antifreeze and water remover products contain alcohol in them.
Well this is kind of back on track. I thought Don T. might like this. I don't have scans of the entire magazine, just the cover and a few adds.
