Also change in location and size of the ground strap from the engine. Early was large GA cable from starter mount bolt to lower grill/frame 3/8"bolt. Later was smaller GA cable from engine tin to firewall mount 1/4" bolt on right side of tractor.
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Archive through March 16, 2014
- Thread starter dschwandt
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Hi to All
I have a problem and need help. While installing a short block in my 1450 K321 Kolher I think Im confused on something. My son took the inspection plate off the valve adjusting body. It has some items and I'm not sure of the order. 1st I installed the main plate body wiht gasket. Then I see a paper thin sheet made like a cross (Medical cross)Then you have a metal high rise in center plate made of 3/8 + - inch wide flat steel. I put that in with high rise going towrd engine . Then I have a small mesh filter and a rubber round approx 1/2 inch tall. Then last I put on the final cover with gasket. I'm not sure of the Medical cross thin piece and filter. Not sure if I have them in order. Does someone have a diagram of these pictures and how they go? Sure would appreciate it.
Jerry in TN
I have a problem and need help. While installing a short block in my 1450 K321 Kolher I think Im confused on something. My son took the inspection plate off the valve adjusting body. It has some items and I'm not sure of the order. 1st I installed the main plate body wiht gasket. Then I see a paper thin sheet made like a cross (Medical cross)Then you have a metal high rise in center plate made of 3/8 + - inch wide flat steel. I put that in with high rise going towrd engine . Then I have a small mesh filter and a rubber round approx 1/2 inch tall. Then last I put on the final cover with gasket. I'm not sure of the Medical cross thin piece and filter. Not sure if I have them in order. Does someone have a diagram of these pictures and how they go? Sure would appreciate it.
Jerry in TN
Gentlemen –
Thanks to all who found the QA 42-A snowthrower article useful. Harry B, you are correct in that the same design could be employed with a narrow frame, but probably making a shortened rod of the correct length would look more pleasing.
I have just a few personal observations on the Quietline changes over the years. Being an owner of a 1975 model 1250, I feel somewhat qualified to respond.
Aluminum vs. Cast Iron – This was obviously done for cost savings. Considering the moderate complexity of the parts and their size (lower grill housing and two axle housings) plus the much lower cost of aluminum die-castings versus sand-permanent mold castings for the iron parts, there is no question that a savings of at least 40% in manufacturing costs was achieved. The downside is weight of the tractor is reduced. Tractors are supposed to be heavy, thus I prefer the iron parts.
¾” vs. 1” diameter front axles – It’s not the strength of the axle that’s of concern, but the load carrying capacity of the ball-type wheel bearings that are used. The 1” I.D. wheel bearing has a larger load rating, thus this was a definite improvement in the design.
Hydrostatic Auto Dump Valves – A real improvement over the manual types used prior.
Internal Transmission Brake – Had to have been a cost savings but at the expense of poorer braking action. The internal brake operates on the input shaft of the differential – this means that differential action is still active. In other words, if going down a slippery slope and the brake is applied, there is potential of one wheel rotating in the forward direction while the other wheel is rotating backwards – result is no effective braking! With the dual wheel disc brakes, both wheels brake equally. IMHO, the dual disc brakes are much superior.
As a product matures, changes are made for both the consumers and manufacturers benefit and this can be seen during the production run of the Quietline series. In this instance, I think the changes benefitted IH slightly more than the customer.
Thanks to all who found the QA 42-A snowthrower article useful. Harry B, you are correct in that the same design could be employed with a narrow frame, but probably making a shortened rod of the correct length would look more pleasing.
I have just a few personal observations on the Quietline changes over the years. Being an owner of a 1975 model 1250, I feel somewhat qualified to respond.
Aluminum vs. Cast Iron – This was obviously done for cost savings. Considering the moderate complexity of the parts and their size (lower grill housing and two axle housings) plus the much lower cost of aluminum die-castings versus sand-permanent mold castings for the iron parts, there is no question that a savings of at least 40% in manufacturing costs was achieved. The downside is weight of the tractor is reduced. Tractors are supposed to be heavy, thus I prefer the iron parts.
¾” vs. 1” diameter front axles – It’s not the strength of the axle that’s of concern, but the load carrying capacity of the ball-type wheel bearings that are used. The 1” I.D. wheel bearing has a larger load rating, thus this was a definite improvement in the design.
Hydrostatic Auto Dump Valves – A real improvement over the manual types used prior.
Internal Transmission Brake – Had to have been a cost savings but at the expense of poorer braking action. The internal brake operates on the input shaft of the differential – this means that differential action is still active. In other words, if going down a slippery slope and the brake is applied, there is potential of one wheel rotating in the forward direction while the other wheel is rotating backwards – result is no effective braking! With the dual wheel disc brakes, both wheels brake equally. IMHO, the dual disc brakes are much superior.
As a product matures, changes are made for both the consumers and manufacturers benefit and this can be seen during the production run of the Quietline series. In this instance, I think the changes benefitted IH slightly more than the customer.
Jerry G. Parts look-up gives a detailed exploded view of the assembly. Just blow it up for a good look. Sounds to me like you have it right. The filter has a hole in it and the rubber spacer goes through it and over the stud.
Jerry W G.
At this point in the project I would hope you have a Kohler manual in front of you. If you do, it is in the manual.
By short block, I assume minus the head and flywheel which have critical torque values and sequences.
If you don't have the manual, stop, and get one.
Otherwise a quick google search will find you a good picture.
"K321 Crankcase breather assembly"
At this point in the project I would hope you have a Kohler manual in front of you. If you do, it is in the manual.
By short block, I assume minus the head and flywheel which have critical torque values and sequences.
If you don't have the manual, stop, and get one.
Otherwise a quick google search will find you a good picture.
"K321 Crankcase breather assembly"
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2005
- Messages
- 812
- displayname
- Binder 1650
Harry B - I looked at the serial numbers on both tractors and it appears that my 1650 is from 1974. For some reason I thought it was a 1975 year make. I gather the 1x8/9 tractors both were made at some point in 1974. My parts 1250 tractor appears to be a 1975 model.
Charlie is right - run what you brung! I just find it very interesting to know from a historical standpoint every detail on these tractors as to what and why things were done.
We've had a 60 deg highs this weekend and I got to spend some time dismantling some of my parts 1250. I've got a big box where I'm keeping my QL spare parts for future use - should the need ever arise. BTW, the hydro on the 1250 and my 1650, both have the automatic dump valves - so I guess at some point those we're replaced.
I think I'm going to focus on the early QL's for now. Even though I'm writing this post on an iPad and use computers all day, I still like pen, paper, books, writing in the margins - and I like cast iron too, which the earlier QL's had more of than the later ones. As Charlie said, "run what you brung", so my preference (subject to change with the weather) is no dig on later QL's.
Speaking of weather, today is March 16 and tomorrow, March 17 and in my neck of the woods, the weather folks are saying, out with the 60 deg temps and in with a winter storm warning. 6-8 inches and maybe more. I'm traveling for work and will miss it, but my Boys have the 1650 ready for action! But really, isn't it time to break out the moldboard?
Quick question - what kind of a chore is it to put a tiller on one of these Cub Cadet tractors?
Quick question - can't say I've ever seen a pic of Charlie on an 82 series IHCC. Have I just missed it?
Charlie is right - run what you brung! I just find it very interesting to know from a historical standpoint every detail on these tractors as to what and why things were done.
We've had a 60 deg highs this weekend and I got to spend some time dismantling some of my parts 1250. I've got a big box where I'm keeping my QL spare parts for future use - should the need ever arise. BTW, the hydro on the 1250 and my 1650, both have the automatic dump valves - so I guess at some point those we're replaced.
I think I'm going to focus on the early QL's for now. Even though I'm writing this post on an iPad and use computers all day, I still like pen, paper, books, writing in the margins - and I like cast iron too, which the earlier QL's had more of than the later ones. As Charlie said, "run what you brung", so my preference (subject to change with the weather) is no dig on later QL's.
Speaking of weather, today is March 16 and tomorrow, March 17 and in my neck of the woods, the weather folks are saying, out with the 60 deg temps and in with a winter storm warning. 6-8 inches and maybe more. I'm traveling for work and will miss it, but my Boys have the 1650 ready for action! But really, isn't it time to break out the moldboard?
Quick question - what kind of a chore is it to put a tiller on one of these Cub Cadet tractors?
Quick question - can't say I've ever seen a pic of Charlie on an 82 series IHCC. Have I just missed it?
Bill J.
You didn't miss it, cause it's never happened,
You didn't miss it, cause it's never happened,
Melody S,
Still got it, but it's not IH.
Still got it, but it's not IH.
That's the one that the Flyin Squirrel deposited some octane booster in the diesel fuel before he delivered it from Mi. LOL
glippert
Well-known member
Bill J - Attaching a tiller isn't too bad. I usually connect the two lower arms first, then the upper, and the lift pin. I usually remove the belt guard and loosen the belt from gearbox to the large pulley, just so I don't have to fight the belt tension while connecting the upper arms. To be honest, I have more trouble putting on the long drive belt from the front pto to the gearbox. Good luck!
glippert
Well-known member
Hydro questions: I see references to relief valves, check valves, and dump valves. What are the large (1" hex head) ones on the top? (I have the auto version on my 782).
I'm talking about these guys:
My second question refers to having these valves repaired. I recall seeing a post on here within the last few weeks or months about somebody who actually removes the "top hat" with a lathe, replaces the guts, then seals it up again (I can't find that post now). Just wondering if anyone has gone this route vs buying new or used? Or, what do those of you who know a lot more than me feel about this option? I think he charges about $35 for the repair of the valve (whatever it's called!)
Anybody got two cents?
By the way, the reason I'm asking; after replacing my bad hydraulic lift line, I still have a small "spray" or "spritz" coming out the vent hole on the top of the valve on the left side (as seated on the tractor).
I'm talking about these guys:
My second question refers to having these valves repaired. I recall seeing a post on here within the last few weeks or months about somebody who actually removes the "top hat" with a lathe, replaces the guts, then seals it up again (I can't find that post now). Just wondering if anyone has gone this route vs buying new or used? Or, what do those of you who know a lot more than me feel about this option? I think he charges about $35 for the repair of the valve (whatever it's called!)
Anybody got two cents?
By the way, the reason I'm asking; after replacing my bad hydraulic lift line, I still have a small "spray" or "spritz" coming out the vent hole on the top of the valve on the left side (as seated on the tractor).
hydroharry
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 4,468
- displayname
- Harry Bursell
David K - thanks for the come back on the QL changes.
It is interesting that a 1" bearing is that much better load rating - at at roughly the same time IH removed 40# from the front by changing the lower cast iron grill housing to aluminum - sort of a save money one place and increase cost another.
On the auto vs. manual dump valves, yes it would seem an improvement, but on the other hand there certainly are alot of the manual ones still around performing without a problem. I tend to think there are just as many people commenting about having a problem with auto versions as manual versions.
And as for the braking - I believe there is another issue with the internal brakes, which I experienced a few times. If you happen to stop on a slope of any kind the brake will hold for awhile and then it can slip away even with the brake depressed. I don't know the actual routing but apparently the fluid runs away from the internal brake leaving you rolling/coasting. I seem to recall this occuring while pointed up hill - but I guess in the end it's not good to stop any place other than a flat area which ever version brake you have.
Bill QQ - as for your 1650 being a '74 but you thought '75, well it might be that the production started in Oct '74, and although IH made alot of these units there probably aren't that many '74 versions around. Would be interesting if yours is an Oct unit since there were still some 1x8/9 units made in Oct, which I believe have been 169's. There had been some comments that the last 3 months of production of the 1x8/9 were all 169's. Something about so many changes being made to the line to start production of the QL that they didn't make anything except 169's, but don't know if there has ever been any way to verify any of this.
It is interesting that a 1" bearing is that much better load rating - at at roughly the same time IH removed 40# from the front by changing the lower cast iron grill housing to aluminum - sort of a save money one place and increase cost another.
On the auto vs. manual dump valves, yes it would seem an improvement, but on the other hand there certainly are alot of the manual ones still around performing without a problem. I tend to think there are just as many people commenting about having a problem with auto versions as manual versions.
And as for the braking - I believe there is another issue with the internal brakes, which I experienced a few times. If you happen to stop on a slope of any kind the brake will hold for awhile and then it can slip away even with the brake depressed. I don't know the actual routing but apparently the fluid runs away from the internal brake leaving you rolling/coasting. I seem to recall this occuring while pointed up hill - but I guess in the end it's not good to stop any place other than a flat area which ever version brake you have.
Bill QQ - as for your 1650 being a '74 but you thought '75, well it might be that the production started in Oct '74, and although IH made alot of these units there probably aren't that many '74 versions around. Would be interesting if yours is an Oct unit since there were still some 1x8/9 units made in Oct, which I believe have been 169's. There had been some comments that the last 3 months of production of the 1x8/9 were all 169's. Something about so many changes being made to the line to start production of the QL that they didn't make anything except 169's, but don't know if there has ever been any way to verify any of this.
Harry Bursell
I have to correct you when I read this statement you made , (I don't know the actual routing but apparently the fluid runs away from the internal brake leaving you rolling/coasting) :
internal brakes have a shaft that pushes a brake puck against a disk in the rear end . The fluid has no affect on the brake .
Please explain that statement .
I have to correct you when I read this statement you made , (I don't know the actual routing but apparently the fluid runs away from the internal brake leaving you rolling/coasting) :
internal brakes have a shaft that pushes a brake puck against a disk in the rear end . The fluid has no affect on the brake .
Please explain that statement .
Greg-
Oil coming out of the top of the check valves indicates an internal leakage. Repair or replace is the solution. FAQ number 55 shows how you repair one but you would need a lathe. I don't recall the post about a guy doing it but I did see a guy selling repaired one's on a certain auction site.
Oil coming out of the top of the check valves indicates an internal leakage. Repair or replace is the solution. FAQ number 55 shows how you repair one but you would need a lathe. I don't recall the post about a guy doing it but I did see a guy selling repaired one's on a certain auction site.
Greg Lippert....E-mail sent w/details
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