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Archive through June 28, 2009
- Thread starter ewank
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Forum:
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 220
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- Aaron Schmidt - Xtreme Motorworks
Hey guys, I have a 782 with a 2.8 chevy v6 coupled to the stock hydro drivetrain. I havent pulled with it yet but want to try it this fall. Ive got plenty of power but tire speed is still same as its was as a stock 782. Do they make any re-gearing gears for these hydros? Any info or links would be appreciated. Thanks in advance
Aaron, U know if that had a gear drive transmission the speed would be more in tune with the rpm. I Don't Know what that V-6 turns but with 26 inch tires and the 4-1 reduction housing off an original (driven direct) could give you around 30 miles an hour for a little while.
With a creeper you could still pull a plow. Course all this is untill the top shaft looks like a pretzle and most of the teeth are missing completly.
Aaron, I'm building a v8 hydro 1250 Cub for a fella that has the same idea. The easiest way to go faster is to just put taller pulling tires on it, 26x12x12, those 23"s will turn too easy. I told him to call Venko Bizjak of True Gear (Canada), Venko said no problem. You may need to send the stock gears from the hydro unit and what ratio you want. True gear has produced aftermarket pulling gearsets for years for the geardrive transaxles. Custom gears are reasonably priced and quick service too, no problem with customs or shipping to states.
http://www.true-gear.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10191151@N05/sets/72157610283447042/
http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/Thunderbolt51
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Geos_Place/
http://www.true-gear.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10191151@N05/sets/72157610283447042/
http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/Thunderbolt51
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Geos_Place/
Aaron, if you didn't put the v6 in backwards (drive off the balancer) you'll have to flip the ring gear carrier because engine rotation is opposite of g.t. engines. I think you should have the fine spline axles in that unit so you should be good there. Axle breakage is common with the smaller course spline axles with the v8's, several of these tractors are in a couple of clubs in NY, (new popular 1500 lb. class in Central NY and Brookfield).
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 220
- displayname
- Aaron Schmidt - Xtreme Motorworks
Thanks guys for the information. I did put the motor in so that the balancer is to the front, flipped the pump and also the ring gear / carrier. I think that 26x12-12 will get me some better traction due to the contact patch, but feel some faster gears would also help - According to the sunstrand manual - the pump can take 4200 rpm. I run 4100 rpm so far - and no problems.
Aaron, putting TALLER tires on IS like changing gears, much easier than changing a ring and pinion gearset. There is a significant difference between the circumferance of the 23" and the 26" tires, change those first, then determine whether you need to change gears. Beware that pulling tires need to be measured by circumferance and not go by the tire sidewall markings, there is a large variation in ACTUAL/real sizes from ALL stated/marked tire sizes from the manufacturers.
Curious about you flipping the pump, why and how did you do it ??
Also, most pulling groups have safety regulations for engine block side shields and hydro pump and driveline/u-joint shielding. I'm sure that the v8 hydros are turning much more than the 4200 rpm factory limit, you'll want to have a spare or two though. Another note, although the Zoomie style headers look nice and are easy to make, on naturally aspirated multiple cylindered engines a proper collectored header (a merge collector is best) will ALWAYS make for better response and a broader power range, stronger AND sounds better too !! Only supercharged engines use zoomies.
Curious about you flipping the pump, why and how did you do it ??
Also, most pulling groups have safety regulations for engine block side shields and hydro pump and driveline/u-joint shielding. I'm sure that the v8 hydros are turning much more than the 4200 rpm factory limit, you'll want to have a spare or two though. Another note, although the Zoomie style headers look nice and are easy to make, on naturally aspirated multiple cylindered engines a proper collectored header (a merge collector is best) will ALWAYS make for better response and a broader power range, stronger AND sounds better too !! Only supercharged engines use zoomies.
kredlinger
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2008
- Messages
- 134
- displayname
- Kyle Redlinger
HEY VINCE!! 2 times now I've sat on the little 10hp with those "<font color="0000ff">MAGICAL</font>" Firstones with a 1st & a 2nd so far. Here's a pic of a friends boy driving it for his first time.
Fellas,
This isn't a pulling inquiry, but I figured the Cub experts here would have some imput to my questions.
My son uses his Cub (a model 86 with a 10HP Kohler) to pull a small 3'x 4' x 3' high trailer to gather firewood out from along the riverbank behind his place. The terrain can be very soft and very 'iffy' most of the time. He asked me for advice on his latest idea which is to go to duals and put a spool in the rearend. Now I don't see a big issue with the duals, other than getting crap jammed in between the duals, but I don't see any way to avoid that. As you know a spool would replace the differential and to two wheels would be on the same drive spline. Do you guys have any ideas/suggestions/warnings/advice you could share regarding running duals and/or if a spool can be installed and the +/-'s of doing so.
Thanks in Advance for your expertise, Guys!
Ryan Wilke
This isn't a pulling inquiry, but I figured the Cub experts here would have some imput to my questions.
My son uses his Cub (a model 86 with a 10HP Kohler) to pull a small 3'x 4' x 3' high trailer to gather firewood out from along the riverbank behind his place. The terrain can be very soft and very 'iffy' most of the time. He asked me for advice on his latest idea which is to go to duals and put a spool in the rearend. Now I don't see a big issue with the duals, other than getting crap jammed in between the duals, but I don't see any way to avoid that. As you know a spool would replace the differential and to two wheels would be on the same drive spline. Do you guys have any ideas/suggestions/warnings/advice you could share regarding running duals and/or if a spool can be installed and the +/-'s of doing so.
Thanks in Advance for your expertise, Guys!
Ryan Wilke
Ryan, I have some expirience with running a riverbank with a cub. Duals are a good idea along with the largest tire you can afford. chains and or bar tires for sure. Locking the rear end is antiproductive, when he gets in the slime he'll never turn it. something else to think about is increasing the front tire size. I think the front tires on my 149 are 1850 10 8 for just that reason. IMHO YMMV
Dave R.,
Thanks for the reply and ideas!
Yep, we discussed increasing the height of the rear tire, even talked about the possibility of giving the Cub a 'body lift' to allow more tire height in the rear, but knew that we'd also run into issues with the available shifter throw and length and necessary mods to the clutch pedal if raised too much; maybe 1.5" blocks is all.
He runs chains in the river muck now and finds them very beneficial. Yep, maybe the inside tires would be bar tires; don't know if we can locate/buy four of them!
You mentioned that locking the rear end would be antiproductive - do you mean that the engine doesn't/wouldn't have the power to turn both axles if buried down or do you mean it couldn't turn the tractor because the front tires would simply push and not bite to turn the rig in the slippery river muck?
Yes, we were also discussing increasing the front tire height and width. We were discussing maybe some slim & tall bar tires up front; we don't have a size determined yet....looking for ideas yet. You mentioned your 149 has 1850 10 8 front tires - do you have any more info on them? Maybe a link to a picture and where they can be had? What front rims are you using?
This rig isn't ever asked to mow, just tow. Another plan is to pull the 10HP and install a freshened 12HP in its place this Winter...
Thanks again for all the thoughts, ideas and suggestions!
Ryan Wilke
Thanks for the reply and ideas!
Yep, we discussed increasing the height of the rear tire, even talked about the possibility of giving the Cub a 'body lift' to allow more tire height in the rear, but knew that we'd also run into issues with the available shifter throw and length and necessary mods to the clutch pedal if raised too much; maybe 1.5" blocks is all.
He runs chains in the river muck now and finds them very beneficial. Yep, maybe the inside tires would be bar tires; don't know if we can locate/buy four of them!
You mentioned that locking the rear end would be antiproductive - do you mean that the engine doesn't/wouldn't have the power to turn both axles if buried down or do you mean it couldn't turn the tractor because the front tires would simply push and not bite to turn the rig in the slippery river muck?
Yes, we were also discussing increasing the front tire height and width. We were discussing maybe some slim & tall bar tires up front; we don't have a size determined yet....looking for ideas yet. You mentioned your 149 has 1850 10 8 front tires - do you have any more info on them? Maybe a link to a picture and where they can be had? What front rims are you using?
This rig isn't ever asked to mow, just tow. Another plan is to pull the 10HP and install a freshened 12HP in its place this Winter...
Thanks again for all the thoughts, ideas and suggestions!
Ryan Wilke
Dave R.,
Another quick thought/question: My son & I also discussed changing out the axle on his small utility trailer to a longer one that would allow us to install some wider Cub tires on it. Then we also looked at the hitch, wanting to raise that up to get that more level.
Would you think that raising the trailer hitch point would also be beneficial for towing just as it benefits tractor-pulling rigs?
Ryan Wilke
Another quick thought/question: My son & I also discussed changing out the axle on his small utility trailer to a longer one that would allow us to install some wider Cub tires on it. Then we also looked at the hitch, wanting to raise that up to get that more level.
Would you think that raising the trailer hitch point would also be beneficial for towing just as it benefits tractor-pulling rigs?
Ryan Wilke
proessler
Well-known member
Ryan W Another thought might be to add right & left rear brake pedals if that is possible,like the super GT's. Then use as a poor man's differential lock to help in those sticky situations...I have used alternate braking with full size tractors in the past to get out of slippy conditions.
RYAN - I don't know exactly what type of ground Your Son is trying to get over but if it's wet mud duals would probably hurt more than help. They really widen out the tractor which would make fitting into tight places impossible, the also put a lot of force on the axles & hubs. Typically, speaking from experience, once You get onto soft ground with a dualed-up tractor it really doesn't make any difference where You try to steer, the drive tire with the best footing which is normally AWAY from the deepest & wettest mud will turn You right into the middle if the wet spot.
Like Paul said, individual steering brakes help a little but once a tire starts spinning Your just about stuck.
The frt tires a Super Garden tractor have are an 18-8.50 X 8, all the SGT CC's had 1" spindles and 7 inch wide frt wheels, but You may be able to find bearings to fit a 3/4" spindle. I have no idea if the OEM SGT wheels will fit on an 86 but I kinda doubt it.
For rear tires I think something taller & wider would work much better than dualed-up 12" tires, maybe something like a 31-10.50 X 15 or a 31-12.50 x 15 mud-bogging tire for a 4WD. The SGT rear tires are 26-12.00 X 12's so You'd gain 2-1/2 inches of ground clearance over those or around four inches compared to the stock 23-8.50 or 23-10.50 x 12 rear tires. A wheel with more off-set would help keep the tractor from getting too tippy also.
The job of hauling wood off a muddy riverbank sounds like a good job for a 4WD ATV.
Like Paul said, individual steering brakes help a little but once a tire starts spinning Your just about stuck.
The frt tires a Super Garden tractor have are an 18-8.50 X 8, all the SGT CC's had 1" spindles and 7 inch wide frt wheels, but You may be able to find bearings to fit a 3/4" spindle. I have no idea if the OEM SGT wheels will fit on an 86 but I kinda doubt it.
For rear tires I think something taller & wider would work much better than dualed-up 12" tires, maybe something like a 31-10.50 X 15 or a 31-12.50 x 15 mud-bogging tire for a 4WD. The SGT rear tires are 26-12.00 X 12's so You'd gain 2-1/2 inches of ground clearance over those or around four inches compared to the stock 23-8.50 or 23-10.50 x 12 rear tires. A wheel with more off-set would help keep the tractor from getting too tippy also.
The job of hauling wood off a muddy riverbank sounds like a good job for a 4WD ATV.
Ryan, I ment it would have a tendency to push rather than turn. My front tires are the rear tires off some pos dad had laying around the shop with no purpose, stock cub rims, they are close but clear. The river bottom I was on had everthing as far as dirt goes. gumbo, peat, and sand. I found staying on top was usually my best bet. If I did break the crust especially after a flood there was no telling where the bottom was.
increasing the tire size on the trailer helps for ground clearance and floatation, so, yea I'd say thats a good thing
increasing the tire size on the trailer helps for ground clearance and floatation, so, yea I'd say thats a good thing
David R. / Paul R. / Dennis F.,
Thanks guys for all the thoughts and suggestions!
I'll have to mull them over and discuss them with my son.
I like the idea of just going with taller and wider rather than duals. I agree that duals would make the rig pretty darn wide! I like the idea of finding some bearings that may allow us to run SGT tires/rims on the 86 Cub 3/4" spindles. But steering may be limited if the tires/rims don't have enough of the proper offset. Locating some SGT tires might also be a trick in itself..... But, all good ideas/thoughts.
Thanks again, Guys!
Ryan Wilke
Thanks guys for all the thoughts and suggestions!
I'll have to mull them over and discuss them with my son.
I like the idea of just going with taller and wider rather than duals. I agree that duals would make the rig pretty darn wide! I like the idea of finding some bearings that may allow us to run SGT tires/rims on the 86 Cub 3/4" spindles. But steering may be limited if the tires/rims don't have enough of the proper offset. Locating some SGT tires might also be a trick in itself..... But, all good ideas/thoughts.
Thanks again, Guys!
Ryan Wilke
