Archive through June 26, 2010

[tdaugherty]

Hey all Cadeters!
I got a question concerning my 67' 124. Just recently, i installed a newer style regulator on it, and for some odd reason,the tractor will run without a battery now, even though it has a battery type ignition. However, i hooked up a charger/engine starter, fired my Cub up, and then turned the the switch to OFF on the starter/charger. I noticed that since my charger has a backlight in the gauge, it will glow if a battery has some juice in it still. I left the wires hooked up, and the backlight glowed pretty well, so im guessin my generator is charging fairly ok, even without a battery. Is this ok, or just a precursor to failing? Im going to buy a battery for it this weekend, maybe it is actually charging! Thanks

 

[tdaugherty]

Y'all listen to this.
My neighbor is giving me 6 old tractors to restore, all for $free, and there is a diamond in the rough, an Original, with it's original deck, lights, and dumpcart! I am real excited about this, because now, i have another rougher one, but a little TLC, paint, and some engine work, she'll be back up on er feet.

 

[mprendergast]

With all the talk about the oil and head temps I took a washer thermocouple and put it under the #1 torqued bolt per the owner’s manual. Attached a digital thermocouple gage and taped on to the hood of my 129 with a K301A engine. Then took a sealed thermocouple with a heatproof cord and ran it down the oil fill port and in to the oil but not touching the metal. Taped the measuring stick in place since the cord wasn’t letting it seal.

Installed another digital thermocouple gage on the dash and a resistance meter between the block and the outer shell of the thermocouple in the oil. If the resistance changes while running then the tip may not be in oil (assuming oil is flying everywhere). Ran the mower for 1.3 hours doing flat ground and around 3 MPH with the mower running at 3300 RPM using Castrol 30 weight oil at 70 degrees F outside and sunny.

The results, the oil and engine started at 72 f and in 3 minutes the oil was up to 210 f and the head was at 310 f. The highest the oil got was 210 f and the head up to 325 f. The resistance of the thermocouple never changed so I think the oil stayed in the pan. When I shut the tractor off the oil shot up to 272 f and the head up to 377 f. I took 12 minutes for the oil to get down to 210 f and 45 to get to 110 f . The head was at 92 f in 45 minutes.

When the air stops the engine heat goes up considerably. Hope this helps with the oil questions.

 

[tbradshaw]

I Have a walbro carb on my 104. I am having trouble with it in that I think that it "runs away" from the gas when it gets hot. I also looked in the gas tank after it cut off and saw gas "bubbling" in the tank. I pulled the carb apart and soaked it in cleaner. It ran fine for a while after I did this, but after a couple of hours, it started doing the same thing. It is way different from the carter that was on it.....I am however putting the carter carb back on as soon as the throttle shaft kit gets here and I can do an overhaul on it. Can anyone tell me a trick to the walbro as far as getting right? It has the steel fuel line on it just as the carter did and yes I am getting a good flow from it and the sediment bowl is clean.Is there a screen somewhere in the walbro carb that I did not see? I guarantee that I will NEVER use another walbro.

Tom

 

[bproctor]

Morning all

Since we're on oil again, is this the stuff everyone talks about? I don't have a JD dealer close by to get their brand. It sounds like that is the favorite. I had to drive 20 miles to the Rural King to get the Rotella.

 

[bproctor]

Also showing off more parts for the 71.

I had started priming the engine parts with the rust color primer so everything attached to the engine is primed in that color. also some items from under the tractor. The parts in the box have been blasted but not primed.

 

[rnajecki]

Good Morning Bob P - Yes, that's the oil we've talked about. Here's another:

You would think that since Kohler made the engine, their oil would be well suited for their engines. The label reads in part, "...for use in all single and twin cylinder Magnum and K-Series engines." Sounds like us! Jim D wrote on June 2nd that is has about 1500 parts per million of ZDDP, which is high compared to others. Rotella has 1000 ppm.

 

[flclark]

Good morning all.

I am posting for the first time. I have just bought a CC 125, and I have a question about the coil. The coil gets hot to the touch when the engine cranks, and stays hot while running. Is this normal? I am having problem with the engine stalling under load. How can I determine if the coil currently installed is the right one? I have read in the service manuals the coil that should be installed should have an internal resistor. If the coil does not have the internal resistor or is bad, would it cause the engine to stall under load, and a fouled plug? <center><table border=1><tr><td>

CC Coil
Coil.ppt (77.3 k)</td></tr></table></center> I am going to check the coil with an OHM meter today. Should the primary show 4.5 OHMs, and secondary show 10,000-11,000?

Thanks,

Frank

 

[rnajecki]

Dave R -
On the oil/grease seal, if what you say is true, then why does CC say to invert the upper seal? Any other ideas out there?

 

[mbounds]

Roy N: I recommend reading that manual a little closer... Dave was explaining that the the seals are placed in opposite each other to allow old grease to be pushed out both top and bottom. Turn them the other way and with too much grease injected under pressure, you can easily lock up that bearing ...

Myron B
CCSupplyRoom

 

[fcurrier]

Frank C.: Welcome!

(This oughta be fun)!
I can't open PPT, but this is the coil test I'm familiar with:

Dave Ross: Good catch in the Sandbox. 1955-1963. 1 room, 8 grades, 1 teacher, no running water and uphill both ways.

Have a great weekend, everyone!

 

[flclark]

Frank Currier,

Thanks for the coil test diagram. I have attached what I have as a JPEG. Is there a way to determine if the coil i have has the internal resistor, and is the right unit for my 125?

Thanks again

FC

 

[ljones]

Which would be best to have cyl head temp or oil temp if you mounted the oil temp unit in the bottom of the pan sideways would it get hit would it have good oil coverage?

Matt Prendergast, thanks for taking the time to perform those tests.

 

[digger]

Lucas J.
What would be best would be to leave it alone and not worry about head and oil temperature.
There's no logical reasoning that I can come up with to have or go to the trouble of installing them. Can you?
I guess what I'm trying to say here is, What's the point other than general curiosity on your part.

 

[dfrisk]

MATT P. - Great write-up on engine heat/temperature conditions. The spike in engine & oil temps is referred to as "Heat Soak" because there's still a whole L-O-T of heat left in the block, piston, etc when the flow of cooling air stops when the engine is shut off. Water-cooled engines do the exact same thing BTW. After a long run like yours, anytime the engine is up to operating temp you should let the engine idle at a reasonable speed with no load to remove that excess heat before shutting the engine off. By reasonable I mean not wide open and not a "chug......chug......chug" speed. Something in the 1000-1500 RPM range and even though the manuals say idle for 3 minutes I would let it idle for 10 to 15 minutes or longer depending on ambient temps (hotter = longer).

Many here complain about a huge "POP" when shutting their tractor engine off after running. I've never had that happen in 45+ yrs of running CC's, it's raw gasoline vapor filling the muffler after ignition is turned off but the engine still spins over and the gas is ignited by a hot spot in the muffler or something. It's because the engine was shut off at too high of engine speed and while still too hot.

Thursday after I mowered with my 982 for three hours I idled it 15 minutes blowing the tractor & deck off, hooked back up to my dump trailer and parked it in the shop. It was 80-82 degrees and I'm sure engine temp spiked once I shut it off.

ROY N. - I think Shell told Ken Rotella T 30W has 1200 PPM ZDDP. Have to check his responce from them in the coffee shop again. Big unanswered question is "How much is enough?". The cams in these engines are really TAME, valve springs are really soft. Question I keep having run thru my mind is I broke the K321 in my CC 72 in with 30W Non-Detergent oil like the Kohler manual says, ran it 30-60 minutes and changed it, ran it 2-3 hours and changed it again. Put Rotella 15W-40 in and ran it 5-10 hours (have to check my maintenance log to confirm these run times) and then switched to Rotella SB 5W-40 synthetic around 20 hours. wonder how much ZDDP that cheap 30W non-detergent had since the most critical time for cam wear was when That was in the engine. I did have assembly grease on the cam lobes & lifter faces and also an excess of other assembly lube, forget the brand name, in the engine in other places. Had a new cam with new lifters.

DAVE KIRK - Stick around and post more often!

 

[T-Mo]

Lucas,
I agree with Charlie. This oil and engine temperature discussion is interesting, but I wouldn't worry about what your engine temperature is. If you have a heat problem, you will know it. Why spend the extra money and the extra time finding, buying and then installing an oil temp sensor and gauge - it won't make it run any better, won't make it mow grass any better, won't make a hill of beans, as the old folks used to say. Leave it alone and enjoy your tractor.

 

[aaytay]

How much ZDDP is enough??

 

[dfrisk]

TERRY - I guess it all depends on how often you you mow on REALLY hot days whether monitoring temps is worth while. My grass typically doesn't grow real fast when it's really hot and I try to mow when temps are 80 or cooler.

Can't say I've ever heard of a Kohler engine failing because of too high of operating temp but as Dave K's post said, typical motor oil turns to tar-like substance quickly once exposed to temps over 250 deg. F.

Like my old QA Mgr always said, He preferred to deal with DATA as opposed conjecture or opinion. And the more DATA Points He had the happier he was.

And the result of monitoring temps results in longer life and in the long run lower cost of operation over that longer life, less repairs for things like blown head gaskets, burned valves, less need for things like MMO, etc.

I guess I'm a curious one also. I always wanted tach's, oil PSI gauges, accurate temp gauges. A passenger in my first car described my dash as "Something from an airplane" with all the glowing red dials in & below the dash. And I really didn't think I had that much stuff in that car.

 

[dfrisk]

ART - Interesting topic on that board. Wish I had time to read it ALL but Real Life interfers today.

One comment I did notice on a quick glance thru, new oil testing uses an overhead cam engine with flat cam follower for one of two tests. Old Overhead valve engines actually apply MORE force against the cam with the lifter since the rocker arms have a lever advantage from the valve springs. THAT being said, our little flat-head Kohlers have really soft valve springs and the force is not multiplied in any way.

 

[dross]

On this temp thing, I think information like that is a tool just like gauges in your car. Sometimes you can get a piece of junk in the carb that cause imeadiate problems but I think a lot more times it's a buildup of junk that a head temp gauge could help at least let you know somethings going on before the engine has real symptoms. Most guys wouldn't think of hook a camper up to a truck and travel a couple hours on a hot day, over hills without a set of gauges. We all do pretty much that only the tractors run wide open under load "blind". Mabey it's just cause it's always been that way. If it's just a matter of taking the spark plug out, installing a sender, and mounting a gauge. Why not?

<font size="-2">sorry charlie but you did ask for one reason</font>