Archive through January 01, 2005

[kortman]

Hi All. Although I have a wrong colored hydro tractor, it does have a disconnect clutch between the engine and transaxle. Believe me, when it is 0 out, it starts a lot easier when not having to turn the hydro unit. And although I'm not too informed on Cubs (but learning), but don't you have to stop the driveshaft from turning when shifting the creeper unit (as in disengaging the clutch on a gear drive)? So if you did get your hydro started and then warmed up, you'd have to shut it off to put the creeper in "hi" or "direct drive" then restart it? At least I wasn't thinking it was a "shift on the fly" kind of gearbox like a torque-amplifier or powershift transmission. I am finding the loader talk very interesting, especially the articulated versions. I have only run one garden tractor in my life with a loader on it (yes, it was that same wrong color, but it did have power steering) and for small projects it would be handy to have, but for big jobs get the proper sized equipment to get the job done safely.

Kent

 

[jvangor]

steve, i thought they were yellow, i know that the factory rebuilds or new engines are black, our local dealer does alot of rebuilds,an they paint them yellow,and they swore to me that the 86's were black, so i will paint it yellow, i would hate for it to look wrong

 

[sblunier]

Kent,

You are right, a creeper is a straight up 4:1 underdrive...no shift on the fly, no clutch, and it's definately not a TA (power shifting 4:1 under would be a drive line KILLER

) They are used on gear drives for snow throwers, tillers, and some very heavy mowing (pasture grass), but are not geared for "field work".

I'd LOVE a 1.3:1 TA for a Cub, but no such animal exists

(Message edited by sblunier on January 01, 2005)

 

[kortman]

Hi Steve. Wasn't Wyatt C. or somebody thinking of building a T/A unit for a Cub? I thought I remembered reading about that on here quite a while ago. Like you said, I bet that would be great on a Cub for plowing through those tough spots, plus the neatness factor of it. On my gear drive tractors it would be the same as me pulling back on the variable speed lever when hitting a tough spot or slowing down to turn on the end rows when plowing. Off-topic, but I can't wait for the 1206 precison to come out, it will look nice sitting next to my 560 diesel precision. Although I collect the wrong color garden tractors, dad still farms with both a 560 & 1206, so I just HAVE to get the toys to match them

Kent

 

[kmorrow]

Dave K2, ain'tcha ever heard that forgiveness is easier to obtain than permission? If I had to wait on the wife to give permission, I'd NEVER have another Cub (or even parts) again, most likely.

That being said, keep in mind that a) our financial arrangements aren't necessarily what most married couples would consider normal and b) the Cubs I buy generally don't qualify as "major" purchases, in terms of price. If I don't get 'em cheap, I don't generally get 'em.

Recorded a personal "first" today. I got the 782 out and cut the front lawn, more to even up the wild onions and grind up the remainder of the fallen leaves than because the actual grass needed cutting. Still, it was the first time I've ever mowed the lawn in January.

My .02 on the CC loaders - I can see where they'd be real handy for certain things, and all other things being equal I wouldn't mind having one. But, since I already have a larger tractor (IH 684), my money would be much better spent buying a loader for that one, as it would give me a much more capable piece of equipment.

Marlin, Jacobsens also have 2-speed hydros, I think the ones they use are made by Eaton. I have a GT16H, but I can't tell you whether or not I like it, as the tractor is a non-runner. Someday, maybe...

Anyway, Happy New Year to you all!

 

[kweaver]

<font color="0000ff">Steve</font> - I wasn't going to drag your pic into this debate unless you done it first I can find yours on my cd's , just can't find mine !

<font color="0000ff">Terry</font> - I already decided about 4+ years ago to make an articulated loader , that's why I quit working on mine. Then Steve's loader frame looked better as an articulated loader than a conventional style frame so I'm just waiting for another WF hydro to fall off a truck out in front of the house

I posted the first articulated cub on here over 4 years ago , I've got the forum pics on cd dated 1-26-00 so it was sometime in december I guess so I've been looking at a lot of them since then. I've still not seen the "perfect" one. I posted a pic of a grader made with cub parts too then Jim Chabot started his twin engine grader project ... wonder what ever became of that ???

<font color="0000ff">Dave</font> - <font color="ff0000">"a creeper would do for a hydro- it'd make it easier to start on a cold day"</font> -- why not just put in a clutch to disengage the shaft ?

<font color="0000ff">Marlin</font> - I've got a 2-sp ferd hydro rear sitting here ... need one ? ... the blue color is killing my property value ! I pointed out a little ferd tractor with a loader one day to a guy many moons ago , he said his farm hand could haul as much with a shovel , I said "yeah but it beats the hell out of having to use a shovel"
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That's my reason for needing one , I can't push an empty wheel barrow (the tin pan ones) because my back is so screwed up. I can't hold anything out in front of me. My wife has to do the 'barrowing around here. I've got 3 dovetail slides in the garage floor that I can't move to get my boat back inside !
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<font color="0000ff">Dave - Marlin</font> .... ever seen a skidsteer on grass ? One good thing , less grass to mow !
Oh and the "sinking in part" ... here's proof of that !

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I think Dave's problem is he needs a new wife that says YES or just ignores him and let's him do what he wants as long as it's outside ... ... oh wait I married that one 25+ years ago !

<font color="0000ff">Tom</font> - got it ... I don't have the old cable blade D8 anymore or the MF 275 with QA loader ... that's WHY I want to build one ... plus I'll have the only one on Hwy 90 !


<font color="0000ff">Steve</font> - I see you've came in on the clutch / hydro ... I'm not going to delete mine I'm reading / typing / reading ... from the bottom up ... bottoms up guys !
Why not turn the creeper around and over drive the hydro ... could hit the freeway then !

(Message edited by kweaver on January 02, 2005)

 

[kweaver]

<font color="ff0000">Well I post once a day and I went over the limit by 1.3k ... ;( My congressman will hear of this !</font>

<font color="0000ff">Dave</font> I just remembered something else about you telling Zach about S/G charging capabilities , A guy came in here years ago while I had the welding shop going , he had his 7000 diesel ferd next door at the store and the battery was stone cold dead and wouldn't make a wimper. I took my 200amp start charger over there and it wouldn't do more than roll it over , I came back and fired up the 127 and took the jumper cables , cub + charger and it fired up in about 5 minutes of running the cub to help out the charger. The tractor battery was one of those about 2 foot long. I told him now he could tell his ferd buddies that a IH Cub Cadet 12 horse jump started his tractor !!

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Seems like for some reason I'm thinking that I read they put out 25amp charge ... can't remember where I read it ... ?
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<font color="0000ff">Kenny M</font> - since Jac and ferd are the same , yep on the Eaton. On the IH 684 if it had a loader ... be kinda hard on the lawn carrying dirt , mulch to the flower beds and kinda hard to fit inside a garage to move or clean out things.
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CC loaders have a place , just like a 1 inch drill bit and a 1/16 inch drill bit. Different size for different jobs , can't get a long without both sometimes but I bet the CC loader would get more use ! Just think how much fun you could have hauling the groceries from the car to the house door ... so what if it's only 12 feet !!
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I used a White 20hp with a loader to take a 250amp Lincoln buzz box out of my truck when I traded it off ... the White didn't have hardly any traction even with a loaded weight box on the rear , the steering reminded me of a Brockway I drove without PS. Why do they call'em "White" when it was grey ??? Now that's a mystery to ponder !!!!!

 

[tmanley]

Thanks Charlie. I went back, and still couldn't find it!

"Couldn't see no damn forest, trees in the way"

 

[dkamp]

>Dave K2, ain'tcha ever heard that forgiveness is easier to obtain than permission? If I had to wait on the wife to give permission, I'd NEVER have another Cub (or even parts) again, most likely.

Hee hee... Kenny- How 'd'ya think I got the Monarch 10EE... and the Bridgeport... and the Johannsen radial-drill, and the Diesel-project parts... and the Loader-Mutt parts... and the radio towers... and...

If it weren't for forgiveness, I'd be a worthless, tool-less oaf by her rule. As it is, I'm just a worthless oaf... but I got a few big tools. I make good use of the forgiveness technique... especially like others said- if it's a zero-budget project, I can usually get permission slightly-after-the-fact.

Steve- putting clutches on hydros is exactly what I had in mind (workin' on that right now). By "creeper", I didn't have any intention on suggesting it on the hydro INPUT... just on the OUTPUT. Actually, what I think would be really cool, is taking a gear-drive, removing the Reverse, fitting it with 4 forward speeds, and driving it with a hydro... :-}

Todd- that articulator you posted... driveshaft down low connects the two mechanically (pinion to pinion)... if that thing above the shaft is an oil filter, I'll bet what they did is use the case as an additional hyd reservoir. Good idea!

 

[dkamp]

Ken- the answer to why on the Ded-Ferd-

Your 200A starter-charger probably isn't really good for anywhere near 200A... None I've ever used were good for much over 35. Although the Cub's S/G is only good for 20-25A, it can do that continuously, and the Cub has a battery that's good for better part of 80cca, so figure you clamped on about 100A worth of power, and if you left it on and screamin' for a few minutes, you put a substantial charge on the Ferd before making another attempt.

If it's 2' long, it's likely an 8D battery... that's in the nature of 1100CCA. With no charge on it, the dead battery was dead-weight in a direct-jump condition... in bulk-acceptance state, it probably pulled 35-40A all on it's own, without trying to crank the Diesel. By putting the Cub on there, you put it in bulk-acceptance long enough to push that charge rate down to mebbie 5A, and bottle up just enough current to help clack in the starter solenoid and run the glow-plugs... the rest was done by your Cub's battery.

Most peoples' charger woes comes around to grossly-overrated battery chargers. If it says 200A, and has cables 8' long x #6 wire, it's really only capable of more like 50A at 12v... with that little amount of wire, and the tiny transformers in the charger,it's obvious they aren't up-to-task for a 200A load. Use your DC welder (set way down!) for an extremely-short-period-of-time to lump that motor over- with a 120lb transformer, diodes the size-of-your-thumb, and #00 cables, it's more in the category. I use #2 welding cable for my jumpers... anything smaller just doesn't hack it.

 

[tcbusch]

On the articulated cub,
If I understand correctly, Steve said you can put a rear PTO shaft on a hydro. Could you use a hydro for the first axle then drive a manual transmission off of the rear PTO of the hydro. The gearing might get a bit tricky. What is the rpm difference between the input of a hydro and a rear PTO? What are the rear ratios of the manual transmission gears? Maybe you could just fix the manual into a gear to get the correct ratio.

Final though, is it possible to run a hydro in reverse, exactly the same as it runs forward, or would it run slower or with less power? I don't think my 147 runs as fast in reverse but it might be the linkage. The reason I am asking is because I would rather put the engine in the back of the cub for a counter balance. The hydro would be the back axle driving a manual front axle.

 

[kmorrow]

KENtuck, you're right on the 684 being kinda hard on the yard. It's really more tractor than I need these days, as I'm not farming any more since Dad and I had our big falling-out this past summer. I don't even have room enough where we live to park it, since we live in town and have a small yard, so it stays down at my FIL's farm and I go visit it occasionally. Not planning to sell it, though, as it's paid for and not eating anything, and I'm hoping to have use for it again someday.

Dave, I've worked the "forgiveness" angle often enough now that the wife doesn't even really get PO'd when I bring in a new one (that stopped about 2 Cubs ago). I even showed her a picture last night of what the next one was gonna look like - she just kinda shook her head a little bit and kept going.

 

[ofletcher]

I have had a loader on my 147 for years, I lost it two months after I rebuilt it to my wife. Every cub purchase before she took over the 147, was carefully torn apart and money pinched, not too suprising as she is a cpa, but not any more. Now every time I start a cub she finds something to do with the loader move some rocks, plow some snow, dig a hole for no reason, move something out of the back of the truck. She has been offered thousands more than it is worth, when it is up in the farm going into the stalls, all her horse friends think it is cool. I will never sell for any amount because it was pop pop's tractor, he loved cub's and so do I.

 

[sblunier]

Terry Bush,

The output shaft on a hydro turns at engine rpm, constantly...you could not use it for a 4wd as it would only drive the rear end at one speed (engine speed) while the hydro would be variable.

IMHO you guys are making this 4wd thing too hard. 2 hydros, driven out of the back of the front at engine speed with their trunions linked with morse cable. Centering spring and cam plate linkage on the first hydro, morse cable adjustment between the two to syncronize. get it all done, tie down one side, jack up the other, mark front and rear tires, drive tractor (in place) for 30 sec., check relationship of marks, adjust leade in the driveline (front slightly faster) with Morse cable.......have fun with your 4wd. Assuming you have hydros that are in good shape there shouldn't be any "fighting" issues. Kelly's seems to run and drive just fine.


Dave,

Your version of a Hydro/Gear has been thought of many times before, I guess the question becomes "what does it buy you for the time and $$$ you have in it??" 2 speed would be nice, but IMHO anything more is overdoing it.

Build a gear drive with a useable TA and then you'd have something kicka$$ cool!!!!!

 

[tmanley]

Just out of curiosity, how much does a NF, like my 105 weigh in at, no driver, no attachments?

 

[mhomrighausen]

Ken W. You're a little too far away to get that ferd. Besides, I'd probably end up parting it to get $ for Cub stuff. And the garage is getting a little crowded with two Originals and the 104 and two off topics.

Come to think of it I didn't ask permission last September when I brought home this last Original. I went to "just look" and if reasonable would go back and get it. Well, the gentleman and his wife are splitting up and he said now or never... $50.00 loaded on the truck. Oh, yes Angel was upset until I told her the creeper and fenders don't show up every day. Then she simply asked if I was going to sell it. I said, "Nope."

Terry B. Unless a hydro has a limiter setting either forward or reverse then it will go as fast in reverse as forward with no power loss in either direction.

Dave K. Just have stuff delivered when your wife and you aren't home. Have someone write a note saying, "Please give this (insert what item is) a good home." and tape it on the item. You know ... like leaving a kitten on a doorstep. Beats asking for permission or forgiveness. (Just trying to help.

)

 

[thoffman]

Torin,
105 w/175# operator, full fuel tank, no hitch. 805#

 

[jegstad]

Articulated, 4wd etc

I have started a new thread in the sandbox (for want of a better place) so we could go into this deeper if people want. I have been drawing paper designs for a while and described my thought processes.

Jim Egstad

 

[bmcmeen]

Jim E. -

Hmmm, you've been listening in on the <FONT COLOR="ff0000">Democracy of Two&#153;</FONT>'s e-mails, huh?

We'll be putting up a spot in the "cool Cub Cadets" topic sometime this week to allow these in-depth modification topics. We'll move your thread when it's ready.

 

[sblunier]

Terry B.

Hydro, 8 mph fowrard, 4 mph reverse. There is a pad on the back of the swash plate in a SU-15 hydro that limits the reverse travel.