Morning! Drug a 122 home yesterday with stuck engine and gonna play with it today. Anyone have any suggestions on freeing this ole thing up. Also, the tractor is complete and has a good fiberglass pan seat and wondering if anyone has had one recovered. Have the blue edging.
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Archive through February 17, 2013
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Keith Ostendorf
take the breather cover off the side of the engine so you can see the valves move. at tdc both valves will be not quite closed.the intake will close and the exhaust will open. Then check the area where the sight hole should be and clear it up. You will find that the mark is just a slight score mark and not very deep as one would think it should be. I`am at my fresh rebuild today with a timming issue.
take the breather cover off the side of the engine so you can see the valves move. at tdc both valves will be not quite closed.the intake will close and the exhaust will open. Then check the area where the sight hole should be and clear it up. You will find that the mark is just a slight score mark and not very deep as one would think it should be. I`am at my fresh rebuild today with a timming issue.
RONALD BERG - Sorry about the mis-spelling of your last name. I should have checked your post again before posting. SORRY.
PAUL B. - Thanks for the info on the 2nd gears used in the CUB & LoBoy's.
TOM H. - Harry must not realize that some people still drive cars/trucks with manual transmissions. ALL my pickup's have been 4-spds except my current truck, it's a 5-spd. Most of my cars have had manual trans too, first car, Dad's old '70 Duster with 3-on-the-tree I drove for two years, my '88 Mustang GT was a 5-spd. Wife drove that car for nine years and finally put her foot down... auto's for her from them on. Even my current car, '06 Volvo S40 T5 is a manual 6-spd. If I have a choice, I'll ALWAYS take a manual trans.
HARRY - The typical life expectancy of the engine clutch friction disk in a GD CC is 20 yrs if abused HARD. Slipped frequently or constanty, pulled hard plowing, pushing snow, pulling brush, heavy carts, many many stops & starts while mowing, spraying, trimming, mowing grass & weeds as high as the hood, etc. With normal use they should last 30-40 yrs. The throw-out bearings should last 20-30+ yrs with the stock pressure springs in the clutch. The T/O bearing I toasted two yrs ago was due to the heavy die spring over-loading the bearing. At least the old US-made T/O bearings used to last that long. Not sure about the newer imported bearings. The real weak spot in the GD CC clutch is the teaser spring. Since they live their entire life coil-bound, they fatigue and break, which makes the clutch act like you're dumping the clutch all the time. Real pain to run a CC like that.
The other weak spot you hear about on GD CC's is the thin steel driver used on the Q/L GD tractors with the three roll pins that engage the friction disk. For some reason IH thought it was a good idea to make those disks flexible which fatigues the steel and they break around the hub where the four 1/4" cap screws attach them. I've heard many people complain about that. The clutch release lever bracket.... Not so much, and most of those were people running stiff pressure springs.
YES, The fork truck maintenance manager at FARMALL did tell me 30+ yrs ago that the hydrostatic CC's did survive pulling trash bins around the plant better than the GD CC's .... 8-10 hrs a day 5+ days a week. Those CC's pulled one or two loaded bins, and 3 or sometimes four empty bins. Those bins were welded steel sheet on small steel casters and weighed 750-800# each empty, and could weigh up to 2000# each loaded. The problem wasn't so much getting them rolling but slowing them down and stopping them. With a GD CC you had to disengage the clutch to get to the braking action on a GD. With a hydro you just pulled the speed control lever back.
If your daily use of a CC involves work like that then I can see using a hydro. I use my 982 on my big dump cart most of the time simply because it's the ONLY tractor I own that has a spare set of aux. remote hyd. outlets to run the hoist. But last summer I pulled that cart with the 70 to haul tree prunings & mulch, I just couldn't dump the trailer.
PAUL B. - Thanks for the info on the 2nd gears used in the CUB & LoBoy's.
TOM H. - Harry must not realize that some people still drive cars/trucks with manual transmissions. ALL my pickup's have been 4-spds except my current truck, it's a 5-spd. Most of my cars have had manual trans too, first car, Dad's old '70 Duster with 3-on-the-tree I drove for two years, my '88 Mustang GT was a 5-spd. Wife drove that car for nine years and finally put her foot down... auto's for her from them on. Even my current car, '06 Volvo S40 T5 is a manual 6-spd. If I have a choice, I'll ALWAYS take a manual trans.
HARRY - The typical life expectancy of the engine clutch friction disk in a GD CC is 20 yrs if abused HARD. Slipped frequently or constanty, pulled hard plowing, pushing snow, pulling brush, heavy carts, many many stops & starts while mowing, spraying, trimming, mowing grass & weeds as high as the hood, etc. With normal use they should last 30-40 yrs. The throw-out bearings should last 20-30+ yrs with the stock pressure springs in the clutch. The T/O bearing I toasted two yrs ago was due to the heavy die spring over-loading the bearing. At least the old US-made T/O bearings used to last that long. Not sure about the newer imported bearings. The real weak spot in the GD CC clutch is the teaser spring. Since they live their entire life coil-bound, they fatigue and break, which makes the clutch act like you're dumping the clutch all the time. Real pain to run a CC like that.
The other weak spot you hear about on GD CC's is the thin steel driver used on the Q/L GD tractors with the three roll pins that engage the friction disk. For some reason IH thought it was a good idea to make those disks flexible which fatigues the steel and they break around the hub where the four 1/4" cap screws attach them. I've heard many people complain about that. The clutch release lever bracket.... Not so much, and most of those were people running stiff pressure springs.
YES, The fork truck maintenance manager at FARMALL did tell me 30+ yrs ago that the hydrostatic CC's did survive pulling trash bins around the plant better than the GD CC's .... 8-10 hrs a day 5+ days a week. Those CC's pulled one or two loaded bins, and 3 or sometimes four empty bins. Those bins were welded steel sheet on small steel casters and weighed 750-800# each empty, and could weigh up to 2000# each loaded. The problem wasn't so much getting them rolling but slowing them down and stopping them. With a GD CC you had to disengage the clutch to get to the braking action on a GD. With a hydro you just pulled the speed control lever back.
If your daily use of a CC involves work like that then I can see using a hydro. I use my 982 on my big dump cart most of the time simply because it's the ONLY tractor I own that has a spare set of aux. remote hyd. outlets to run the hoist. But last summer I pulled that cart with the 70 to haul tree prunings & mulch, I just couldn't dump the trailer.
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
One other hydro comment......
Under heavy loads (tough plowing) the hydro does sacrifice some hp to the operation of the hydro unit.....BUT it also allows you to perfectly match the ground speed to the conditions, often making up for the lost power and then some. Momentum derived from the perfect balance of speed, traction, and power carries the hydro unit through tough spots that will often spin out or kill a gear drive because they don't have a "1st and a half" or "2nd and a half" gear.
Heavy drawbar loads on a gear drive require the HP to run a 19T 2nd under +90% of the conditions to make up for some of what I described above.
That said, my 582 (16hp Briggs and 19T 2nd) was a very fun plowing tractor....one I regret selling..... Had I kept it, it would have had Hyd. Lift by now though......
Under heavy loads (tough plowing) the hydro does sacrifice some hp to the operation of the hydro unit.....BUT it also allows you to perfectly match the ground speed to the conditions, often making up for the lost power and then some. Momentum derived from the perfect balance of speed, traction, and power carries the hydro unit through tough spots that will often spin out or kill a gear drive because they don't have a "1st and a half" or "2nd and a half" gear.
Heavy drawbar loads on a gear drive require the HP to run a 19T 2nd under +90% of the conditions to make up for some of what I described above.
That said, my 582 (16hp Briggs and 19T 2nd) was a very fun plowing tractor....one I regret selling..... Had I kept it, it would have had Hyd. Lift by now though......
Dennis,
I agree with you on the 3 pin flex disc driver being a real weak point. I put a brand spankin' new one in a 800 and it only lasted a year or so. Can you imagin eif it were a higher HP unit in there! I'm planning on going with the old steel 3 pin driver and solid mounting in the 1600 this summer.
I agree with you on the 3 pin flex disc driver being a real weak point. I put a brand spankin' new one in a 800 and it only lasted a year or so. Can you imagin eif it were a higher HP unit in there! I'm planning on going with the old steel 3 pin driver and solid mounting in the 1600 this summer.
On the 3 pin GD plate.....will a 70-100 plate work on a QL GD?? I see they have different part #'s in the parts look up site.
I have a 1000 that I picked up last spring for parts and the engine turns freely so thought I'd try and put some life back in the ol Gal but the drive plate is broken around the center like Dennis describes.
Dave S
I have a 1000 that I picked up last spring for parts and the engine turns freely so thought I'd try and put some life back in the ol Gal but the drive plate is broken around the center like Dennis describes.
Dave S
J
jdthompson
Guest
I tryed jumping it and it still clicks will a gas tank from any cc work on a 104
STEVE - Yes, in light draft conditions you can plow at faster speeds with a hydro than in the fast 19T 2nd in a GD. I know a couple people who have plowed in 3rd gear with a GD but I do not recommend it. Even with my old tired K241 in the 72 I was plowing in some really tough conditions at a WI IHCC Chapter 4 PD with Wyatt & Kenny U. years ago, almost as tough of plowing as PD #2. My plow was sucking in a good 8 inches, had to watch that I didn't high center on the next round. No problem running 2nd gear. Wyatt & I even made a couple rounds in the BIG tractor field where there was some wet sticky clay and I ran 2nd with no problems. Even had our Cubbies in the group photo with the big tractors.
And unless you've really bolted on a L-O-T of iron, hundreds of pounds, even a 7 HP CC will spin-out long before it kills the engine in 1st gear. And that's using lug tires, chains, etc.
With a large engine transplant, 12-14-16 HP, a GD CC shouldn't have any problem pulling a 10" plow anywhere in whatever 2nd gear it has. And MWSC makes over-drive reduction gears, up to 47% if 3.9 MPH is too slow, that would be about 5-3/4 MPH. Nice plowing speed! And 3rd would be about TEN MPH. 1st would be 3-3/8 MPH. Run first everywhere, then run 2nd to SHOW OFF!
I guess if GD's are so bad, why do all the pullers run them?
And unless you've really bolted on a L-O-T of iron, hundreds of pounds, even a 7 HP CC will spin-out long before it kills the engine in 1st gear. And that's using lug tires, chains, etc.
With a large engine transplant, 12-14-16 HP, a GD CC shouldn't have any problem pulling a 10" plow anywhere in whatever 2nd gear it has. And MWSC makes over-drive reduction gears, up to 47% if 3.9 MPH is too slow, that would be about 5-3/4 MPH. Nice plowing speed! And 3rd would be about TEN MPH. 1st would be 3-3/8 MPH. Run first everywhere, then run 2nd to SHOW OFF!
I guess if GD's are so bad, why do all the pullers run them?
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
I don't think I said I didn't like GD tractors. I just love Hydros. I like GD cars cause you really feel the hp and I think you are in better control. I don't have one now, but have in the past. You can't go running or popping thru the gears in a GD tractor (if you could I probably wouldn't have a Hydro), but a Hydro does give you that infinite speed control which is sorta similar to having many many gear type control (at least in my naive mind).
GERRY - But pulling IS in the real world... competing for trophies, and maybe a few Dollars at the bigger pulls, putting maximum pulling power with speed and traction to the track conditions so you can pull the furthest. It just doesn't directly trickle down to picking the right speed for mowing your lawn.
Fine tuning that is why MWSC makes 10% & 20% under-drive reduction gears and 10%, 16%, 23%, 26%, 33%, 38%, 43%, and 47% O/D gears. PLUS 25 possible ratios for the transmission speeds. They even make hardware so you can have four forward gears and NO reverse in your GD Cubbie so you can have the perfect ratio or speed for any track and sled condition.
One thing IH did better than any of their competition was to make progressive gearing in their ag tractors. The best was in the 5X88 tractors, each next higher gear was 17% faster than the lower gear... from 1-1/2 MPH to over 18 MPH with 18 speeds. If they would have hung on to the ag division and built them a year or two longer they'd have had a FULL Power Shift version on the market too, not just three pair of power-shift gears in each of the three ranges like the 5X88's had.
I'm glad that IH didn't try to incorporate a variable speed feature using a Salisbury variable speed drive into the drive train. The one company that did, their owners seem to have issues with them now 30 yrs later. My old gear drive Cubbies still work fine.
Ohhh and speaking of tractor pulling, I read on-line where IH & C/IH won ALL the classes at the LVL Super-Pull this past week.
Fine tuning that is why MWSC makes 10% & 20% under-drive reduction gears and 10%, 16%, 23%, 26%, 33%, 38%, 43%, and 47% O/D gears. PLUS 25 possible ratios for the transmission speeds. They even make hardware so you can have four forward gears and NO reverse in your GD Cubbie so you can have the perfect ratio or speed for any track and sled condition.
One thing IH did better than any of their competition was to make progressive gearing in their ag tractors. The best was in the 5X88 tractors, each next higher gear was 17% faster than the lower gear... from 1-1/2 MPH to over 18 MPH with 18 speeds. If they would have hung on to the ag division and built them a year or two longer they'd have had a FULL Power Shift version on the market too, not just three pair of power-shift gears in each of the three ranges like the 5X88's had.
I'm glad that IH didn't try to incorporate a variable speed feature using a Salisbury variable speed drive into the drive train. The one company that did, their owners seem to have issues with them now 30 yrs later. My old gear drive Cubbies still work fine.
Ohhh and speaking of tractor pulling, I read on-line where IH & C/IH won ALL the classes at the LVL Super-Pull this past week.
Denny
Bring any tractor you what and your PSI over here and I will pull them both . With my diesel truck and my 149 . There I said it. A 149 hydro tractor is Sweet to have and above that for hp , I don`t think you need it for most or all jobs around most yards . I have to agree with Kraig that a 125 is hard to beat as well.There all great .
Bring any tractor you what and your PSI over here and I will pull them both . With my diesel truck and my 149 . There I said it. A 149 hydro tractor is Sweet to have and above that for hp , I don`t think you need it for most or all jobs around most yards . I have to agree with Kraig that a 125 is hard to beat as well.There all great .
kostendorf
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- Keith Ostendorf
I found the S and T by spraying PB blaster on the flywheel and just static timed my engine. My question is why are my points set at .026 thousands instead of .020? Also what is the pros and cons between a cast iron oil pan and aluminum?
Well, I went an' did it. Got a 147hydro from a local farmer. Pulled the engine and broke it down over the weekend. Looks like we'll be going 10 over on the new piston/rings with a new rod, 10under on new crank/rod bearings (depending on the machine shop report), a new set of valves and a new guide to go with the exhaust valve. The muffler is nothing but a pipe with two holes in it. If Weebles wobbled as much as my throttle shaft they'd fall down, shaft and bushing time. And even with the purchase price, I figure I'll be CC'ing for a pittance of a new rig and have a whole lot better tractor.
Anybody in North Idaho wanna set up a Plow Day?
Anybody in North Idaho wanna set up a Plow Day?
Keith Ostendorf
I can`t help you on the timming because I`am have a fun time here also. I don`t think it matters what you have for a feeler gauge setting because the points have to spark 20 deg before TDC to run great! I just pulled a rebored 125 engione only to find out it is crank and cam timmed. semms I do have another issue.
I can`t help you on the timming because I`am have a fun time here also. I don`t think it matters what you have for a feeler gauge setting because the points have to spark 20 deg before TDC to run great! I just pulled a rebored 125 engione only to find out it is crank and cam timmed. semms I do have another issue.
kide
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- Gerry Ide
Keith O:
If it's timed correctly, all the more argument against using the gap method for setting TIMING. The only caution is to make sure that the flywheel key isn't partially sheared or for some other reason the keyway in the flywheel doesn't line up with the one in the crank... (and before anyone starts up with a "Kohler engineering knew what they were doing", let me point out two things 1: Many tech writers are lazy SOBs and 2: Balance Gears.....
Dennis:
The GD vs Hydro debate is about real world... Other than Charlie's 149 dragging pallets around (oh, and that's a HYDRO..), most real world GT uses involve lots of speed changes and shuttling back and forth, which is a PITA with any GD I've ever used.. I'd hazard a guess that plows were an option on very few Cubs with a much higher focus on that aspect on this forum than in the real world of lawn mowing, trailer hauling and snow removal...
JMHO, of course............ and BTW, Dennis -
If it's timed correctly, all the more argument against using the gap method for setting TIMING. The only caution is to make sure that the flywheel key isn't partially sheared or for some other reason the keyway in the flywheel doesn't line up with the one in the crank... (and before anyone starts up with a "Kohler engineering knew what they were doing", let me point out two things 1: Many tech writers are lazy SOBs and 2: Balance Gears.....
Dennis:
The GD vs Hydro debate is about real world... Other than Charlie's 149 dragging pallets around (oh, and that's a HYDRO..), most real world GT uses involve lots of speed changes and shuttling back and forth, which is a PITA with any GD I've ever used.. I'd hazard a guess that plows were an option on very few Cubs with a much higher focus on that aspect on this forum than in the real world of lawn mowing, trailer hauling and snow removal...
HydroHarry....Hey I've got a question for you,well for anyone that could answer,,I think I've made a big rookie mistake when I was pulling the the cam & cam pin out of a k241.I think I've misplaced the shims,I Know I can order new ones,what size / sizes should I get? lol Also,,should I replace the aluminum points pushrod pin with a steel one? Any advise is helpfull. thanks ahead of time.
Oh yeah , I did get my axle mount squeezed back and snugged up,worked good.
Oh yeah , I did get my axle mount squeezed back and snugged up,worked good.
