Archive through August 11, 2010

[lpalma]

On the topic of k161's with the block off plate ,mine has one ,it is off a later 70.
Here are some head gasket pix,

Matt G
As you noted the fire ring ones are a lot better, the first one in the picture was still able to run in the condition it was in,the second one without the ring,was not able to hold compression and did not start.

 

[nbextermueller]

I know its bad ediquette to speak of the other IH site... but is anyone else having trouble getting to the registry? I see alot of double posting so I know I'm not the only guy double dipping.

Sorry if this not a nice thing to bring up. but there a few builds I was following over there.

Glad to see IHCC is stronger than ever. And it's not blocked at my work! (like the other one)I'm not sure what I would do without my Cub fix every day.

 

[glippert]

Nic B - There's a new thread in the Sandbox area on this topic. No more real information on the status, but probably a more appropriate place for the conversation. I haven't check in at that site for a long time (I always find everything I need right here at IHCC), but I wish the "other guys" all the best and hope they can recover.

 

[digger]

Nick B.
Take your pick.
http://tinyurl.com/2afqk4d
http://tinyurl.com/27gehp9

 

[tmarkle]

Denny,
I'm pretty sure the original block from my 100 and the replacement which came from a 102 both have the fuel pump block off plate.

I was thinking that the earlier tractors used a more generic engine, but when IH bought enough engines they were able to save a little money by getting them without the hole drilled and the cover plate. That is my theory, but I could be totally wrong.

 

[dfrisk]

TODD - Glad to see you posting here!

I'm not even sure what ever happened to the factory K161 from the 70 Dad bought brand new in '65. I know it was rebuilt the first time in '68 and again in '71 or '72 then replaced with a complete K181 in about '74 or '75. Not sure if that's the engine that still in the 70 or not.

I'd have to check the data/serial number tag on my old K241 that I ran so long in the 72. It seems to me it's about a '65 to '67 vintage. It doesn't have the boss for the pump but is a CC spec engine.

Your theory on the block-off plate is probably pretty accurate. I suspect Kohler built the engines without the plate until many L&G makers wanted or needed fuel pumps to install larger or remote gas tanks. Most of the old tractors of all makes had the gas tank mounted above the engine as CC/IH did.

Making the pattern change to include the boss and machining the holes would add some machine time but really wouldn't add any extra setups or tooling since there's LOTS of machining on that side of the block anyhow.

Biggest problem I see from a production stand point is keeping two practically identicle sets of patterns & tooling for With & without fuel pump engines. Once demand for engines With F/P exceeded demand for those without I suspect Kohler built all engines with the block off plate just to streamline production. At least, that's how I;d do it!

Having the ability to run a fuel pump with the engine is actually kinda a good thing, at least it was for Me & Wyatt when we built our K321's. I think Wyatt wanted to run a remote aux. gas tank and SON & I built a bigger tank for my 72 that held almost three gallons. The sump on that tank extended down almost to the clutch shield between the engine & battery, We had to have something to pump gas "uphill" to the carb.

 

[nbartee]

Thanks to everyone that helped me with my flywheel magnet problem. I learned a lot from that experience and that good site from Gerry. I finally found a good flywheel from Richard Patton and I'm now up & running!

Norm

 

[mbrennan]

Hi:
My 127 w/the 12 hp Kohler backfires on occassion when I shut it off after use. Sounds like a gunshot. What should I be adjusting to stop this.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[dfrisk]

MIKE -We discussed this or at least mentioned it about a month ago. Chances are your CC is running really warm when mowing right now as the whole country seems to be suffering from a heat wave.

Your engine may also be running a bit lean right now due to the bad air conditions, so maybe turning the main fuel adjusting needle a bit, say maybe 1/16th to 1/8th turn richer should help. Also might be a good idea to check ignition timing (Matt G did a really good write-up in the FAQ's) and adjust the timing as needed.

The POP you have is caused by fuel/air mixture running thru the engine which is not burned in the cylinder because the ignition is turned off. The fuel/air hits a hot spot, something glowing red hot or hotter in the muffler and explodes. REALLY hard on mufflers. The best cure is to let your CC idle at no load for several minutes before shutting it off, depending on conditions I recommend between three and ten minutes. Also idle the engine down as low as it can go before turning the key off. That slows the engine enough it will only turn thru a couple intake/exhaust cycles before it stops. You may even need to adjust the idle speed lower on the carb so you can get it slow enough to stop the popping.

 

[kphill]

Mike, another thing you can do to stop the backfiring is to de-carbon the engine. The carbon acts like hot embers and as Dennis said, causes backfiring that way. Idling after mowing allows the engine to cool down and allows these hot spots to cool. To de-carbon, remove the head and clean all carbon from the head and top of engine..This is also why re run MMO. It helps to keep carbon from accumulating and helps to loosen the carbon buildup.

 

[rneubauer]

I have three quietline tractors, 1450, 1450 & a 1650. All are equipped with the 44" mower deck. Recently found a 48" deck with cast iron ends, model number 48U111. Will this deck fit my tractors using the same mule drive setup for the 44" & 50" stamped one piece decks? I was going to purchase this deck for a spare since it is in very good condition, but I have never owned one of these decks.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Rob, I believe the 48" deck was used through the 1x8/9 series so I would assume that if you can find the proper sub-frame it'll work. Note the S/N range at the top of this image from the Parts Lookup, "400,001 to 529,999" the Quiet Line series started at 530,001. Even given the S/N range listed I don't know why it wouldn't work. The QL used the same 3/8" PTO drive belt width and has the same dimensions wide frame QA mount as the 1x8/9 series. Under edit: The 44 and 50" decks used the arched or "hump backed" sub-frames, I believe the 48" deck won't work with those. You'll need the style deck sub-frame as in the image below.

 

[mbrennan]

Thanks for the input on the backfire. I really appreciate have all you experts at my beck and call.
Mike

 

[rneubauer]

Kraig,

Thanks for the reply. I checked Diggers cub faqs and noticed that the 48" deck is not listed for the 1250/1450/1650 series. I thought it would require a different subframe. Since it is not a direct bolt on, I will probably pass. Wish I knew somebody who needed a cherry 48" deck.

 

[dross]

Rob, I wish you lived closer.

<font size="-2">happy birthday to me</font>

 

[dfrisk]

KEVIN - Another way to de-carbon an engine is to inject WATER into the engine. I did that years ago to my K241. The deposits were really hard, I'd run a L-O-T of leaded gas thru it. Normally 20-25 oz. of water is enough for a K-series Kohler.

With a spray mist bottle, engine running at a medium fast idle speed, 1500-1800 rpm, but with the air filter cover & air filter removed, choke totally open, but with the engine not too warm (subjective I know) spray a fine stream of water into the carb which will cause the engine to stumble and sputter a bit with each spray. The water really cools the carbon deposits and makes them flake off the surfaces on the combustion chamber.

If you let the engine get too warm you can cause thermal stress/shock to the valves, the exh. valve excpecially since it runs so hot.

The K241 I did this too was really loaded up. I was doing a tune-up and pulled the plug. I installed the same plug back in, injected the water and and pulled the plug afterwards, it wasn't totally clean but I'd say 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the deposits were gone. Lot quicker & cheaper than brushing/scraping them off, and the risk of getting hard deposits stuck between the piston & cylinder and scratching the bore is MUCH less.

I've also used Top Engine Cleaner sold by GM. I suspect Sea Foam is the same stuff. I used a peice of 1/4" dia clear vinyl hose and a football or basketball inflating needle clamped to the end of the hose and held it into the throat of the carb and let the vacuum suck the cleaner in. You can vary the osition of the end of the inflation needle to control the amount of the solvent going into the engine. Those products are flammable, the engine will run on them so the sputtering/stumbling wouldn't be as bad unless to let way too much in.

Good idea to change the spark plug & engine oil afterwards too.

 

[dtanner]

Hello Kraig

My order from C C Specialties arrived today so I can now repair the pto on a 125. Thanks for the great service

.Its now time for a dip in the pool at 84 deg water temp.Might have to float around for the rest of the day lol.Life is good.

 

[kphill]

Dennis, I prefer to run a few tanks of MMO through the engine to soften up the carbon and then take the head off and clean with a brass brush. After running MMO the carbon practically falls off and is very easy to clean. With the head off, now you can check the flatness and also renew the head gasket witch is probably leaking if you never changed it anyway. As for running water through an engine, I have seen it done, I have tried it before, and I really don't think it does that much good. It does not really pressure clean the inside. I feel if you get in there and clean it, You know what you got..

 

[dtanner]

Kevin Hill

I know water cleans them up and if done yearly the engine will be clean. I used my wife plant mister at 1/2 t and will spray till the 12K starts to die and as soon as it pickes up after that I spray it again.I have replaced the head gasket and found no carbon build up when I did replace the head gasket.All that was there was a dust that wiped off with a rag.I think that an engine not used propely will carbon up.running to rich and pushed under powered will make this worse. My loader I know suffers this fate because of the way I need to run the loader at lower rpms. I do like to run it rich in hopes of making it run cooler. I might have the wrong idea but i`am old and stuborn lol. Dennis F knows his **** and I always read over his posts for sure.A coool one after 40 min mowing ! later

 

[kphill]

Donald, My problem with that process is this: If running water through an engine loosens carbon and that carbon is breaking loose and going through that engine, Don't you think those hard carbon deposits are not sticking to the cylinder walls getting between the rings and causing scratches?..I do not believe in running abrasives of any kind through an engine.. And although I believe Dennis has experiance, I too have been working on engines for a living since the 70s and right now I work for a company that builds engines that are valued between $600,000 and 1.2 mil. a copy..So believe who you want..