582 DEAD. Cannot get starter to turn.

[dkline]

582 was dormant for about 3 months. Ran fine when parked.
So I added gas, charged battery, aired the tires, and turned the key.
Not a thing. No click, no sound. Only a waver in the charge indicator.
So I have confirmed power to the key switch, but not beyond.
I have a circuit tester with alligator clip and light.
The seat switch is not installed where it contacts the seat. Has been that way since I got this tractor 4 years ago.
I need a sequence for working through this schematic. Even better is your best guess quick fix.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Make sure that the PTO switch isn't turned on. Check that the clutch/brake pedal "safety switch" is working. There's a spring steel actuator that presses the switch when you press the clutch/brake pedal in, check that it didn't break. It's possible that the key switch is going bad or has a bad connection. Could also be a bad ground connection somewhere.

 

[dkline]

Thank you Kraig!
Working through each item. PTO off. Brake pedal spring OK.
Have not been able to verify "safety Switch." Suggestions on procedure?
And taking each connection off and inspect and return.
No success yet.

 

[snicklas]

Wiggle the PTO Switch. The PTO Switch on the Cub Cadet’s is “on” in both positions. When the PTO is disengaged there are contacts that complete the circuit to allow the starter to operate. When the PTO is engaged, there are contacts that allow the PTO to operate, and the starter to be disabled.

Over the weekend we were over at Dad’s moving tractors around and putting a couple of mine in storage. It had been a couple weeks or so since some of them had been started, and even longer for others. On Dad’s 782, and on a few of the Quietlines I had to wiggle the PTO Switch to get them to start.... nice humid Midwest weather makes the contacts get a bit dirty when they sit.... quick jiggle of the switch and they would start.....

 

[dkline]

Thank you.
I did wiggle the PTO switch. I learned that you must lift the little silver handle a bit to move it. Made no difference in ability to start.

What I am working on is getting power to the safety switch.
As you can see from the schematic above, an orange line runs from the magnetic switch to the safety switch. That line has no power. The terminal at the magnetic switch is powerless. What causes power to go there?
Maybe the magnetic switch is not working properly?
Or does the power come the other way? In that case the key must be turned to the start position.
Thanks for your help.

 

[kharvey]

Orange on wiring diagram goes from brake safety switch to starter solenoid.

 

[kharvey]

Power goes from key thru brake safety to power starter solenoid. Get a cheap test light and follow the power on down the line.

 

[dkline]

Thank you, Kendal!
I have had a test light for years, and have been using it.
I have just determined that when the key is in the start position I get power to the safety switch. however it does not pass through the safety switch. Looks like I may need a new one.

 

[dkline]

Is there any reason not to bypass the safety switch other than safety? I need to move this rig.

 

[snicklas]

My opinion, bypass it and get it moved. How long it takes you to fix it... well that depends on how busy you are.....

Most safeties were put in as time went on, mainly due to legislation and to prevent a company from being sued because "I did something stupid and now you have to pay" Main thing is, it's your machine..... take care of it how you like

Through the IH run of Cub Cadets... I think up until the 1x4/5 there were no safeties. Then it was just a brake switch... then a seat switch and a PTO Switch.... as time when on......

 

[dkline]

Thanks for the encouragement Scott!
I did put a jumper between the two leads of the switch. Nothing happened.
I discovered that when I turn the key switch to start, the current coming down the orange/black wire shines the light brightly for an instant and then dims.
But when I do the jumper, no current passes to the magnetic switch terminal.
Cannot figure this out.

 

[bkattner]

I'd jump the starter solenoid and see if it can turn over the engine, then if that checks out I'd start going through the starter circuit/safety switches.

 

[dkline]

Thanks Brian
I will do that in the morning.

 

[tkhoffman]

As bkattner mentioned, go from +12 to the small wire on the solenoid and it should crank.
Seat Safety Switches. I get it, if you get bumped off the tractor you want it to stop. Having said that, I do not them in place. There are too many times when you need to lift off the seat a bit to see something better. Hate the engine stalling when you are creaping up to something critical

 

[tkhoffman]

That orange black may dim a bit as the Magnet Switch (Starter Solenoid) draws current. I bet that Solenoid is bad. You will know if it's bad by doing what I mentioned above. Just go from the battery + directly to small connection on that Solenoid. When you do that you should hear and almost feel the contacts inside jumping up to sending power to the Starter.

 

[dkline]

Tony, thank you!
I did the jump from the battery to the small terminal on the solenoid. No noise. No clicking.
The lead I was using was bolted to the battery terminal, then as it was a solid copper wire, I held it against the terminal, using considerable force to get a good connection. Nothing made any noise with several tries.
So the first culprit in searching for the solution is the Magnetic Switch or starter solenoid.

 

[jstich]

Tony, thank you!
I did the jump from the battery to the small terminal on the solenoid. No noise. No clicking.
The lead I was using was bolted to the battery terminal, then as it was a solid copper wire, I held it against the terminal, using considerable force to get a good connection. Nothing made any noise with several tries.
So the first culprit in searching for the solution is the Magnetic Switch or starter solenoid.

You're on a roll now, but before ordering the new solenoid, I would suggest jumping to the big terminal that goes to the starter to be sure that the starter is good (sparks will probably fly). If the starter doesn't run, you've either got a bad starter or a bad battery ground (or battery).

 

[eweiss]

to check the starter, use a battery cable and connect directly to the starter, You should either get a loud clunk, if the starter or engine is locked. If there's nothing ground the neg post to the starter to see if there's a problem

 

[dkline]

I have determined that the starter is good. It turns the motor over, but as I had the key in the off position there was no chance of starting.
Maybe I need to be more courageous to do this with the key on?

 

[tkhoffman]

You jumped the two large terminals on the starter solenoid to accomplish the crank?
OK, take a step back... Take a meter or light tester, one side on Ground, other side on that small terminal on the Starter solenoid. Turn key to start and see if you get voltage to that terminal. If you do then that solenoid is bad If you have trouble getting a new one in a hurry, these are old standard Ford starter solenoids. Look up, for instance, 1991 Ford Explorer starter solenoid. Same same