Weird Things After Replacing Start Solenoid & Key Ignition Switch

[reevesjo]

RZT 50 Model 17W12ACP056, Serial 1E161H10387. After replacing above parts, the engine starts OK but when I release the brake or lift either RH or LH lever arm from the at rest position, the engine stops. I suspected something might be wrong with the new ignition switch, but the chat desk at Cub Cadet said I had the proper switch 725-04228.

 

[reevesjo]

I might add I am working with electrical diagram designed for Harness Number 725-04847A. Violet from Cub Cadet sent the proper diagram. It appears very nearly the same.

 

[RayF]

The brake must be in the released position when you move the handles. It's a safety feature.. perhaps you have a sticking switch at the brake, or at the handles. (the handles release them).

EDIT: I just re-read your post... are you saying that when you release the brake, it dies? Or only when the brake is released-AND- you move the handles?

 

[reevesjo]

Sitting on the seat, without touching ether handle, when I release the brake, the engine dies. With the brake locked, when I raise either handle, the engine dies. There are two switches on the brake. Switch #1 is two pole, one goes straight through; the other pole has a normally open switch. Switch #2 shows a normally open switch. I need to know when the switch is open, whether the lever is up or down. I can check tomorrow. The mower is at my son's house.

 

[reevesjo]

I used to be a tool maker and not an electrician. Switches are confusing. They can be open when actuated or deactuated. Likewise, they can be closed when actuated or deactuated. This diagram does not "show" the switch held open, so I would assume it would be closed, at rest (actuated). Did I not say "switches can be confusing?

 

[RayF]

The switches on the handle- run through the brake actuated switch. I'm thinking the switch on the brake is the culprit (stuck "in") . The 2nd switches on the handles is for stopping the electric clutch when going in reverse ( a feature I bypassed on my RZT).
I would look at the brake actuated switch first... the handle switches are irrelevant if the brake switch isn't working correctly.

 

[reevesjo]

Thanks Ray. That makes sense. I will check it tomorrow morning.

 

[bmader]

Not familiar with this mower but have experience with Exmark zero turns. Is there by chance a seat switch,also a part of the safety system. If you release the brake and are not on the seat the engine dies, so if the seat switch is bad, even if you are on the seat and release the brake the engine will die.

 

[reevesjo]

Thanks bmader for helping. Already checked the seat switch. It is a normally closed switch and opens when my butt sits which prevents the circuit from going to ground. I had tried to jumper it, which does no good, and then I unhooked the wires from the switch, which opens the circuit with no improvement to the problem.

 

[reevesjo]

Need more help. Using the circuit diagram that Violet Stepka from Cub Cadet sent me, I have a couple of questions. When the ignition key is in the RUN position, the 12v battery power goes from Battery to Run terminals on the ignition switch, then TO PIN 3 on the Engine Connection, and TO PIN 8 on the Dash Connection, and TO PIN 1 on the PTO switch. Since PIN 1 on the PTO switch is a dead end because the switch in normally open when the PTO switch is OFF:
1. Is there any feed back from the Engine or from the Dash to help understand the rest of the circuit? It seems necessary to me.

 

[RayF]

1) Check for power at the Ignition Switch RUN terminal
2) Check for power at the PTO Switch #1 (power in) and #4 (power out) Terminals (with switch "ON")
3) Check for power at each "reverse" switch.. -in and out- If you have power TO these switches, but not out, you can "jump" them by removing the plug, and using a heavy gauge wire.

The engine connector and the Dash plug are irrelevant (unless they are grounded out). The dash plug simply lights the PTO bulb, The engine connector is a separate circuit on the same post of the ign switch.

If the above doesn't give you an answer... you should un-plug the engine connector, and recheck... the PTO should get power with the engine connector unplugged. If so... follow the engine connector wires for a short.

 

[reevesjo]

Thanks RayF for the quick reply.
1) I assume there is power at #1 PTO since it tried to start the blades when I pulled up on the switch. BUT, I will double check.
2) I had the PTO switch out and checked all the possibilities and there is continuity between #1 and #4 with the PTO switch ON.
3) I will double check all of these as well as the "reverse switches".
Almost dark here, so will give it another try tomorrow. Thanks for your willing help!!

 

[RayF]

Have fun... I'll be installing a new wiring harness for the dash of this 1958 Packard Hawk tomorrow...

 

[reevesjo]

RayF
1) There is power at the Ignition Switch RUN terminal.
2) There is power at the PTO Switch, both in and out, with the switch ON.
3) Both reverse switches test OK.
When I unhook the plug to the Dash, nothing happens. The engine starts & runs.
When I unhook the plug to the Engine, it will not start.
When I unhook the plug to Brake Switch #1, the engine starts OK and the Brake Off lever and Neutral Switches do not stop the engine as before. One small victory, however....
Another problem arises: When I lift the PTO switch to ON position, the engine stops.

I forgot the last step. Unplug the engine connector and recheck...the PTO should get power with the engine connector unplugged. If so...follow the engine connector wires for a short.

I will do this tomorrow.

 

[reevesjo]

Present situation:
With all switches hooked up as shown on 725-04847C.pdf: Turn key to START. Batt-Run-Start signal goes through LH Neutral & RH Neutral switches, then through Brake Switch #2 because Brake Lever is in locked position, then through NC contacts in PTO switch because it is OFF position, then to Solenoid that connects the Battery to the engine Starter. Engine starts successfully.

But: When brake lever is released, the engine dies. OR: If either Neutral Lever is lifted, the engine dies.

Now, if I unplug Brake Switch #1, I can restart the engine and the Brake Lever can be moved off locked position and the engine continues to run. And I can lift either of both Neutral Levers and the engine continues to run, and I can drive the mower. But, when I lift the PTO Switch to ON position to engage the mower blades, the engine dies.

This is the simplest description I can offer.

 

[reevesjo]

CASE CLOSED!!! Thanks ******!!! Earlier when I checked the NC side of Brake Switch #1, it remained closed. This really caused me problems when troubleshooting when I wrongly assumed it should stay closed.. Today it had mysteriously started working, so when I re-plugged it back into the circuit, everything is working as it should. I greatly appreciate ******'s detailed schematics. The one showing this particular contact in the open position showed my assumption had been wrong from the beginning.

 

[exSW]

Have fun... I'll be installing a new wiring harness for the dash of this 1958 Packard Hawk tomorrow...
View attachment 137983

Nice. Not many in that variation.289?
Also,the hood prop's a masterpiece!

 

[RayF]

only 588 made... Yes Factory Supercharged 289.
The hood prop was handy... I removed the hood to work on it.
Installed a rebuilt Supercharger, went through the carb, going to add electronic ignition (Pertronix), already did a full suspension rebuild. After I get everything working and running... I'll remove the SC and blower box and polish them.

 

[exSW]

only 588 made... Yes Factory Supercharged 289.
The hood prop was handy... I removed the hood to work on it.
Installed a rebuilt Supercharger, went through the carb, going to add electronic ignition (Pertronix), already did a full suspension rebuild. After I get everything working and running... I'll remove the SC and blower box and polish them.
View attachment 138014

Thanks for the close-up. I thought I saw the blower. 289 Stude is one of my bucket list engines. Maybe in a nice pickup.