Super Steer Wheel

[proessler]

Eric most of listed machines in Super Steer FAQ had 16x6.50-8 fronts std. equipment.

That's the size those Ag fronts look like to me.

 

[elthomas]

I was asking because it was a 4 lug bolt pattern and I was going to start looking around for the parts for the super steer project.

 

[elthomas]

I needed to know the tractor model that the 4 lug bolt pattern rims or wheels which ever you choose to call them, so I can hunt for a set of them.

 

[kweaver]

Eric - They are 4 bolt on a 4" center trailer wheel.

 

[bpientka]

I did the change over on my 1512 and found the cheapest rim at

http://www.easternmarine.com/Trailer-Wheels-Rims/

less than $10.00 each for white painted rims in either 4 or 5 lug patterns.

Bernie

 

[jchamberlin]

My question about the Super Steer Axle upgrade is why does it raise the front end 2" when installed on an earlier model tractor like a 782, 149, 147, 122 etc. What did MTD/CCC do differently with the frame on the Cyclops series than what IH (and CCC) had done before? I don't really mind putting trailer wheels on the front, but I'm having a problem justifying 26" wheels and tires on the rear (its a lot of deniro).
Just curious.

 

[nbextermueller]

From what I have learned, a std axle has the front spindle welded to the U shape a little below center. The Super Steer axle has a "bent" spindle that comes down out of the axle and then turns outward, making the wheel centerline 2" below the std axle.

I think MTD moved the rear axle down 2" to compensate and then added bigger fenders with deep flares to fill in the big gap over the rear tires. Or they could have left the rear alone and just adjusted the attachments to fit level.

 

[sblunier]

They did indeed lower the rear axle in the frame to match the higher front end. And....adjusted some attachments as well (front blade subframe for SS axle models has longer QA hook extensions to keep the blade quadrant running level.....use one on a std GT and the subframe almost hits the ground near the blade lift pivot).

 

[jchamberlin]

Thanks, guys. It all makes sense now.

 

[nbextermueller]

So I just brought home the new to me (and soon to be in parts) 1862 and thought I would put a tape measure too it. Very interesting results. keep in mind these 2 tractors are running on virtually the same frame.

1682 height @ bottom of front frame. 12" on the nose...
782 height @ same spot on frame. 12 1/4"... Interesting

1682 height @ c/l rear end mounting bolts. 13 1/8".
782 height @ same spot. 13 1/2"... Higher again.

The mid point of the frame at the front of the foot rest is also about 1/4" higher on the 782.

Both these tractors have similar front tires of the same listed size @ the same 20psi.

The 782 has new 23x10.5 Firestones while the 1862 has "ok" 23x10.5 turfs. I take that as the 1/2" difference in the rear.


But by no means is the 1862 2 inches taller than the 782. It's actually lower. We'll see what happens when I move the axle over.

 

[jchamberlin]

That IS interesting, Nic. Thanks for posting.

 

[jstertz]

I have been very silent on this whole topic not wanting to buck the trend of what was being said up to this point...

However, those of you who have followed my Chief resto thread, know that we put an 1862 SS front axle, complete power steering system, and the factory 1862 wheels and tires on a 149. We have fit a mower deck and a QA42A snowthrower with no problems at all and are running factory 23x10.50-12's on the back. I don't know about all the other things stated here but I know that it lined up fine for us. We made all the measurement that Nic made and came up with the same conclusions! However, beware Nic, the factory Front tires aren't the same height as a replacement tire with the same listed size!!!! It sounds crazy but the sidewalls are smaller on the factory tires. I don't know why! Dad bought a new set of Carlisle turfs that were listed as the same size and they were substantially taller!

These were our findings on installing a SS axle on our tractor...

 

[nbextermueller]

Josh, thanks for the confirmation. I totally understand the new/old tire size issue. The new V61's on the 2072 were over 1" taller than the old tires. In fact, they were taller just standing next to the old tire before they were even mounted or aired up.

I can't wait to get this project rolling. Sooo many cool parts to upgrade.

 

[sblunier]

I can tell you for a fact, that the SS upgrade to a 782 requires adjustments to a QA 42A thrower to make it clear Carlisle Multi-Trac turfs on the front axle. The SS axle pushes the wheels forward like a SGT and the tires don't clear the chain /drive shaft guard. Also the thrower will not lower all the way and the subframe requires clearancing.......BTDT

I also know that MTD lengthened the uprights on the wide frame blade subframe to keep the quadrant level (correct geometry when angled).

Frame height may have come with 1864 model.

I don't know if my set up was off of an 1862 or 1864, and never bothered with any measurements, so there may be slight differences (I know there are 2 styles of steering are on the LH spindle).

 

[bkattner]

Isn't there two different spindles for the super steer axles (as well as two different axle castings, the standard and the swept forward)? I've got an 1861 with tall spindles and swept forward casting, and I have an axle assy from a 1541 (I think) that has shorter spindles and straight casting. The 1541 assy doesn't appear that it would change the front height on my 782, but I'm almost positive the axle off my 1861 would raise it up. I'd be curious to see what the spindles off the 1862 you guys are discussing look like.

 

[jstertz]

Brian K--You may be on to something, that could be the key to this immediate difference of opinions. Take a look in the restorations and refurbish section at my Chief thread. On the first page scroll down. I have several good pics of the axle and spindles that we used off of the 1862. Let me know what you think. Doesn't look swept forward to me...

 

[bkattner]

Josh that looks like the 1541 axle I picked up for my 782, although I'm staying with armstrong steering. The difference is in the spindles- the tall SS spindle, the stub the wheel mounts on is dropped a few inches. The axle you & I have the stub is right below the axle casting. Also the tall setup casting is swept forward, I'd guess adding about 1.5 inches to the wheelbase. I've been researching online on this subject for a few months now and this is what I've figured out. My 1861 has the tall swept axle but it appears there's a serial number break at some point if production that they went from the short to tall. I went with the shorty as I didn't want to add front height. Truthfully I don't know how much turning radius I lost as I switch around running my machines every other week. Just kind of feels normal to me.

 

[bkattner]

If I can figure out how to get pics on here I can see if I can get a few shots of my axles to show the differences. I'll see what I can do tonight.

 

[bkattner]

Ok, got out to the garage & took some pics

This is the swept forward casting with tall spindles on my 1861

A picture of the taller spindle on my 1861

A picture of the shorter spindle and regular axle on my 782 (was off a 1541).

I noted the steering bellcrank on both left spindles are the same length. The draglink on the shorter axle has the old IH style small tie rod end on the steering gear side & the later larger CCC tie rod end on the bellcrank end. The CCC tall axle has the larger tie rod ends at both the steering gear and the bellcrank. The wheel bearings on my 782 are worn a bit so I don't know that my camber is as perfect as it should be, not to mention I think it has an old set of small trailer tires on it. Does the job though.

This is what I've been able to figure out through different posts here & elsewhere online & a little bit by accident on my own. Hope it helps clear some things up.

 

[sblunier]

I have the swept forward and tall axle off of an 1864 on my 782. The sweep means implement issues, as does the height.