New member, 184 starting issues :-(

[wh cc guy]

I would check the plug wires one more time. Take # one plug out and bring the piston to tdc on the compression stroke. The timing mark should be in line with the pointer. Put your rotor button back on and it will point to the number 1 spark plug location. Put the others in per firing order in the direction the rotor turns.

 

[HIPO Giddyup]

Thanks for the reply. The other day when I was spinning the distributor around to get to the screws that hold the inner plate, I ended up putting everything back in place and then I reset the timing again. I readjusted the timing as you’re mentioning unless I’m missing your description. The only way that the distributor would be off from the number one cylinder position would be if the distributor was taken out of the engine correct? I know this has not been removed by my brother-in-law in the past, and especially the neighbor who borrowed the tractor. He is not mechanically inclined and wouldn’t fool with something that wasn’t his anyway.
I have to get back to the garage tomorrow to mess some more with it. I do have one question, if I turn the pulley to where the pulley mark lines up with the pointer and I am at number one cylinder, - top dead center-, would the gap on the points be open when the pointer and pulley mark align?

 

[wh cc guy]

You could be tdc on the exhaust stroke and the pointer could be lined up but the rotor button would not be on #1 plug wire.

 

[eweiss]

How is the compression? Are the valves to tight, lowering the psi?

 

[dray]

Question? Have you checked the bolts and gasket around the intake/exhaust? Since it is a updraft system if it’s leaking there it could be too lean a mixture to burn

 

[HIPO Giddyup]

Question? Have you checked the bolts and gasket around the intake/exhaust? Since it is a updraft system if it’s leaking there it could be too lean a mixture to burn

All good ideas. I think I am going to now research how to check the valve clearance to make sure nothing is stuck from it sitting. I think I should find that in the service manual.. Not sure about the intake? since the valve access area appears to be behind the carb , I am not sure if the intake needs to come off or not? I am told that poor compression with these clearances could keep it from starting, and perhaps why the plugs aren't really getting wet from continuous starting?? More to come.

 

[PACub100]

You could be tdc on the exhaust stroke and the pointer could be lined up but the rotor button would not be on #1 plug wire.

That's what I was thinking...maybe you're 180 out?

 

[mfrade]

If you do line up the ignition rotor in the cap by way of aligning the mark on the front pulley and the timing tab, The rotor should actually be pointing just a bit PAST the # 1 terminal post. The spark needs to occur BEFORE TDC. And yes, the points open to create the spark in the coil, If you haven't done so already and want to verify one more time, You need to verify that your on the compression stroke. You should be able to remove the plugs ( to make it easier to spin. Hold a finger over the plug hole while you "bump" the motor over, when you feel compression use a wrench or ratchet socket on the front bolt and slowly turn to align the front pulley mark as you approach the mark is when the rotor should align with the post/contact/connection for the #1 plug wire. If you do not get compression, then it's time to remove the rocker cover next..

 

[Shaggy77]

Just throwing this out there because it sounds like you are chasing this in a circle. I am not really familiar with these engines. However if you are getting fuel, spark and are sure you have the timing set with the marks. The next thing I would check is camshaft timing. I looked up and please someone correct me if I am wrong. It looks like the camshaft has a keyed sprocket. It could be possible that the key started to shear throwing off the timing. One of these days I will remember to do a proper introduction. But I would make sure all the marks on everything line up before spraying any more starting fluid in it.

 

[wh cc guy]

48 replies and we still don,t know if he got it running.

 

[kmcconaughey]

48 replies and we still don,t know if he got it running.

He's still working on it. He has been reporting his findings.

 

[HIPO Giddyup]

Sorry everyone, I’ve been juggling quite a few things other than working on the tractor. I have had other folks help and chime in which led to a compression test which looks like the first and second cylinder a very low compression, around 15 psi where cylinders 3 and 4 are up to 125psi. The assumption is sticky valves from the tractor sitting for a few years. My next step is to lubricate the valves and see if they are the issue. Stay tuned and I’ll update as soon as I have more work done.
Thanks again for your help on this. I appreciate everyone’s guidance.
Bill

 

[kzintner]

I wanted to check the coil to determine if I needed a replacement. What is the ohms reading (primary and secondary ) I should see as a favorable reading?
Thanks

 

[kzintner]

Sorry, for a model 70, Kohler engine.

 

[HIPO Giddyup]

Sorry, for a model 70, Kohler engine.

I assume it uses a 3ohm coil? I can check my 1650 and let you know its reading (good running tractor unlike my 184 at the moment), it has a Kohler as well. But, I won't be back in the garage until later today.

 

[dray]

Was thinking about your 184. If you pull it off even with low compression it will start if you have the timing right. Running it will have the oil pressure and heat to loosen the valves unless you have broken valve spring. Don’t know if it has a low oil pressure shutdown?

 

[jstich]

Or a blown head gasket? on the 184

 

[HIPO Giddyup]

Or a blown head gasket? on the 184

I’ve been thinking about a blown head gasket between cylinders one and two. I’ve been raising the valves lubricating them with PB blaster and turning the engine for a few nights now thinking sticking valves could be the issue. I’ve even taken a small wooden dowel and lightly tapped on the valves at their lowest position to make sure they are seated. They seem to be seating correctly so today I thought I would test the PSI again. Cylinder one has raised up to 30 PSI but cylinder 2 is still around 18 psi.
I’m still going to work some more on the valves but if no better results, I think it is a blown head gasket. I can pump some air into cylinder 1 with both valves down and see if it leaks out of cylinder 2 , then it must be a gasket issue.

As for the coil testing, the new coil that I installed has 3.4 ohms between the post, the secondary windings reads 10.22 ohms, I hope this helps you.
Bill

 

[HIPO Giddyup]

Sorry its been so long but I've been tied up with multiple projects. I joined the farmll cub forum as this is the same engine and I wanted to see what those guys thought of this issue. A lot think sticking valves so I continued to soak the valves and hand spin the engine over every few days or so over the past few weeks. I still got the same results with a compression test, around 30 psi on cylinders 1 and 2 where 3 and 4 went up towards 170 psi. I decided to put air into cylinder one to see if it will exit into cylinder two , if I had a communication between the cyclinders, a bad head gasket. I didn't realize that cylinders 1 and 2 shared the same exhaust port as when I did this and plugged the exhaust port, air escaped out of cylinder two's plug hole. I realized this and placed a spark plug back in cylinder two. Tried this again with low pressure and the air is pushing out of the intake and exhaust port for cylinder one with my make shift port plugs in place. Sounds like the valves just aren't seating? I had all valves down for cylinder 1 and 2 when I did this, I could spin the tappets with my finger so the valves had no up force on them. I believe its time to pull the head and look into the valves? Might need to replace the four between cylinders 1 and 2 and valve grind them?

Thanks for any replies!
Bill

 

[HIPO Giddyup]

Well, I smacked the head bolts with a small hammer and a blunt chisel 3-4 times. Kept putting some PB blaster on the bolts too hoping it worked in around them after a few days. Finally took my 3/8 impact tonight and slowly squeezed on and off and was lucky to back out each head bolt. Low and behold what I found,a bad head gasket with a communication between cylinder one and two. Not sure I will even touch the valves at this point but need to clean up the piston heads and all over before I decide. Thanks again for everyone’s help up to this point!!

Bill