New Job, plus a lot of typing

[mtarsus]

Perhaps I am not in the same age group as most of the gentlemen who post in this forum, and by the same token we don't really know each other very well. However, in spite of these disparities, I can recognize that you are a group of excellent people who are actually good friends with one another, and are regularly involved in one another's lives. It is for that reason that I have lurked/posted and generally hung around this forum for a while now; if only because I know that it's a good group of people, and not the usual gang of snarky jerks that you will often find one web-based discussion boards; you know, the type where nobody knows anyone in real life, and they are all very quick to be rude to you or to one another.

I guess what I am saying here is that I like you guys and I like this website. You have treated me with a great deal of respect and courtesy, and I appreciate it.

So Thanks, thanks a lot.


Anyway, that having been said, the initial reason for me making this post was to announce that I recently got a new job; I now work as a Field Service Engineer for Tokyo Electron. Tokyo Electron is a company that sells/maintains the machinery which is used to process and create microchips. Specifically, they build lithography tracks, wet-etch tools, nitride furnaces and RIE etch tools. My job with them is basically as an entry level repairman, but in spite of the job being entry level, it pays very well, and the majority of my coworkers are seasoned professionals with advanced college degrees. Myself, I have virtually no education, and have spent the past 6 years of my life pulling myself up from my boot straps -- in a field that puts extraordinary weight on a college degree.

This new opportunity has sort of given me the right to see myself as equal with the other guys in this field. For, you see, in my previous job, I was continually reminded that I wasn't good enough to ever go anywhere with my career because I have no college degree. Tokyo Electron is going to help me change that.

 

[dtanner]

A piece a paper don`t make you a man and certainly not smart. some of the more challenged guys I know have a few degrees but do not think before they do something . They make me lol. Good luck and don`t look back , only not to forget how far you came .

 

[kmcconaughey]

Mark, CUBgratulations on the new job! Thanks for the nice comments on the forum membership.

 

[kide]

Mark - I echo the congratulations... I followed a similar path in the IT world - a major drawback to not having a degree came about later in life when I was performing work on a professional level, but took almost 10 years to be classified as such, as our state civil service didn't see it the same way as my employer did, who supported me. How ever long it takes, try to get a degree in something... I wish I was your age and could get into what you are doing - sounds like endless possibilities!!

 

[cmcleod]

Mark, congrats on your new job.

I'm very impressed with not only how you pulled yourself by the bootstraps but your persevrence to create a place for you in this world by sheer will and guts. I dont think I have ever heard of another who has attained what you have without that must have college degree. I have no doubt your boss's are impressed as well as your co-workers, and you are so deserving of all you have attained to this point. It seems nothing stops you. Congrats.!!

I and the kitties offer you a roaring round of meows.

Cath

 

[mtarsus]

Thanks everyone for your kind responses!

Gerry, yes I agree with you - it's a sad irony of life that it doesn't matter what you did before, but once you have a degree you are suddenly seen as having potential, as though you are magically endowed with skills just because you can waste your time/money memorizing things that will likely have no real value to you at work. It's a bit of a cheap charade and it is fueled by the college industry (notice how the cost of a college education has reliably increased every year for decades; someone is getting rich on making it impossible to live without a degree). It is a stigma which I've fought for a long time, and now that I've reached a stable level with my career and personal life, I've begun looking into online schools. Arizona State is a reputable brick and mortar school, which also offers an electrical engineering program entirely online. I can take 6-10 years to bang out the degree, then when I start applying for jobs, nobody will know that it was an online program because ASU is a real school.

The best part is that Tokyo Electron will pay for the education part-time on the side. There are many people who decide to stop everything and go back to school, but then they find themselves graduating with a lot of debt, and starting life anew in their 30's. It was not a choice that seemed rational to me. I want to live my life and enjoy it with my friends and family, and I want to have kids someday before I start to get older and feel rushed. If a degree comes my way eventually then it's great, but it's not a showstopper if I never get one.

 

[memorgan]

Mark..Press on...nothing takes the place of persistance...and as far as a degree..The world is full of educated idiots..and congrats!!

 

[nbextermueller]

Congrats on the job. I hope it's going well. I agree that a degree doesn't endow you with sudden smarts, but also know very well you won get far without one. I have an A.S. from ITT Technical Institute and it has gotten my foot in ALOT of otherwise closed doors. I have inserted myself in 3 industries I had ZERO real world experience in. First architectural, then Civil Engineering of bridges and roadways, then finally Mechanical engineering designing railcars for the second largest manufacturer in the country. I have also never not gotten a job I applied for. (Yes, I will pat myself on the back)

So keep plugging away. As much as you hate the educational system and have resisted it, please take note that now that you worked so hard toget where you are without a degree, you just admitted to spending the next 6-10 years getting that fancy piece of paper you so despised. My kids will get a degree in something useful to get them in the door early. Then it's up to them to work hard.

Ironically, I am now self employed with my wife and we doubled my salary, but she took a decent hit to open "her" office. But we still live nicely, debt free and on a budget.

If I could offer you any advice. I have 5 words for you:
Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University!

Best $100 and 9 days I ever spent. I WILL retire and retire rich... Thanks Dave.

 

[kide]

Maybe there's an ex-IBMer out there that will verify; I was told by an IBM SE back in the day that IBM required a degree - but didn't care in what.... Their Lansing, MI office sat on the edge of what was lovingly referred to back then as the "Cow College", IIRC there wasn't even such a thing as a degree in Computer Science back then at MSU.

The director I worked for when I was hiring staff preferred to hire them young, just out of college so that our "deprogramming" consisted of just what they had learned in school, not that plus what they had been taught by some other employer (this was on entry level programming and operations jobs...)

 

[pvanbenschoten]

Not an ex-IBMer, but still working there after 37 years. I had a two year AAS in electrical technology degree when I started in a lab testing diodes. I don't think they would even look at my application today. There are so many graduates looking for work that big businesses can be choosy. I've been doing software for the last couple of decades when I found that it was more fun than doing readings of 400 diodes on test equipment.

At one time, a co-worker had a PHD in Ocean Biology, but most of people were engineers.

 

[dlouw]

Hi Mark
Welcome and well done on your achievements to date. I can only support what has been said thus far. I am an ex-IBMer and yes, way back in the late sixties, early seventies (of the last century) a degree, any degree, was just a qualification to apply. IT or Data Processing as it was called then, was new and the preferred source of trainees were either people who had completed an apprenticeship in electronics for technical (hardware) support, or any degree, to prove determination to achieve. They were however tested for aptitude and attitude. For programming, systems engineering, etc, skills were acquired in-house via intensive courses. For marketing positions, people with some experience in a particular field, such as banking, mining, engineering, etc, plus of course sound attitude and particular personality types, were sought after. They were then 'taught' about what DP/IT could do in that particular industry and were then sent out to sell in that domain.

After only 6 months at university studying mechanical engineering, I had to give up for a number of reasons, including lack of money. A year and a half later, at age 19, by the grace of God, I joined IBM by "accident", without a degree. I worked in Personnel (HR today)for a number of years and won an Administration Achievement Award along the way. I then moved to Systems Engineering. The Country Systems Engineering Manager (South Africa) at the time, said about my not having a degree: "As you know, the degree is just to prove applicants have achieved something, I have known you for a number of years and your capabilities are well proven. Not a problem, you’re most welcome to become an SE". In many respects those were pioneering days in IT and more often was determination and innovation that saw us through. I went on to also receive a Systems Engineering Excellence Award and later, when I moved to Sales and Marketing, a Hunderd Percent Club award too. I then left IBM and had a successful career in an international lubricants company as Manager, Information Systems, or effectively CIO. I am now nearly 70 years old, retired, and still regret never actually obtaining a degree. I have attended many training courses, local and abroad, and did a lot of self-education. I obtained a few formal diplomas including in Datametrics, Business Management and Project Management. Not getting a full degree, still bugs me. Time, cost, and my poor short term memory, prevented me from doing a full degree in later years.

My advice to you is: Appreciate every opportunity you get, do the best you can in any given situation. Learn how to work smarter, not just harder and get yourself some qualification, as soon as you can.

In the electronics field, as in IT and others, technology changes all the time. Stay current by reading and studying all your life.

Lastly, soft skills, being able to communicate well and get along with, and respect people, are as important if not more, than technical and academic skills and qualifications.

Best of luck!

 

[mtarsus]

Long post...


Gentlemen, thank you for responding with your stories and input. I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who has managed to do well with not much of an education. It's true that sometimes college just can't happen for some people who would otherwise be able to do it. Life gets in the way of things.


Nic, I take it your wife is a doctor of sorts? You're a pretty bright guy, it really surprises me to find that you don't have a bachelors in some kind of hard science.



Paul, Dawid - I am always happy to find another IBM'er, although I am also always very surprised to find one who ever has anything good to say about that company. I understand that IBM was truly the best in every way for many years. My father worked for IBM for 27 years. However, after the pitfalls and layoffs of 1993, it has steadily been running into the grave and leaving all of its workers feeling bitter. I believe you were fortunate to experience mostly the good IBM. I remember it was always the people who'd been with the company for a long time who seemed to be really hurt by how things are going.


Finally, I am excited to announce that TEL is sending me abroad to train on their machinery. Firstly, in January I will be traveling to Japan for 3 weeks to train on their newest litho track, the Pro Z. Then, in March, they will be sending me to Austin, Texas, to learn about their Cellesta line of SPS machinery (Surface Preparation Systems, commonly referred to as Wets).

 

[kide]

It's interesting for those of us that read Science Fiction in the old days to note that companies like GM , Xerox and IBM that were written in as lasting forever in some form or other have gone belly up or exist in a much smaller form than 50 years ago... I would have never believed the transition that IBM has gone through from the time I entered "Data Processing", working on a brand new IBM 360-30...