K301 Timing Mark HELP!?

[A Urban]

So, I have a K301 I swapped from a 123 into a 122 (was running when pulled, but has sat for ~12 yrs), and it cranks, but wont start.
Seem to have fuel, as I get some fuel spilling out of the carb throat while cranking. Also applied a shot of ether deep in the throat before cranking.
Seems to get air, as I have suction on the carb throat while cranking.
We initially had no spark. New coil, new condenser, new plug. Verified ALL electrical contacts/wires in the whole harness. Pulled the points, and it looks like the points were replaced with a new set at some point, tho there was a bunch of corrosion on the point tabs themselves. Cleaned them up so they look relatively new.
Ohm'd the plug wire, & its bad. Swapped in an old one thats rough, but Ohm's to zero, even when bending/twisting it, so core should be good.

We now get spark at the points, but its a bit inconsistent. I had tried static timing it, but I swear its hard to tell where max opening is, as the points are open thru roughly 3/4 of the stroke. Gapped to initial 0.020". Even with good, but inconsistent spark, it wont even *attempt* to fire.

Sooo... I'm down to trying to get the static timing closer, but I see a whole bunch of different possible timing marks on the flywheel, thru the timing hole (under SG, on right side of the blower cover). I see everything from a couple "squiggly" lines, to several possible center-punched divots, to two straight "dashes". Cant make out anything that resembles letters (ie "T" or "S").

So the "HELP!?" part: Does anyone have PICS, of what these proper timing marks are supposed to look like??
In all the Service Manuals, both Cub & Kohler, as well as Matt's Static Timing doc, etc, NONE seem to show what the timinng marks actually LOOK likke... Or at least I sure cant find them... ??? vOv

I tried marking them with black Sharpie, but only a couple came out clear, and tried to take pics of them all to post, but with the flash & AF settings on my camera, pics all come out like garbage

 

[mgonitzke]

The surefire way to find them will be to take the flywheel shroud off and wire wheel the periphery of the flywheel, find the marks, and paint the stamped marks. The marks are there, but may be faint. Rust makes them difficult to find.

I don't have a pic in my static timing doc because they are fairly hard to photograph through the sight hole. I have a K-series laying around here- someday I should try to get a pic as an example to add now that I have a bit better of a camera than I did 15 years ago.

 

[Paul_CC149]

 

[A Urban]

The surefire way to find them will be to take the flywheel shroud off and wire wheel the periphery of the flywheel, find the marks, and paint the stamped marks. The marks are there, but may be faint. Rust makes them difficult to find.

I don't have a pic in my static timing doc because they are fairly hard to photograph through the sight hole. I have a K-series laying around here- someday I should try to get a pic as an example to add now that I have a bit better of a camera than I did 15 years ago.

Thanx for the reply, Matt. Yeaahh.. tell me about trying to get good pics with the shroud on.. LOL
Sooo. I did manage to find pics of some bare flywheels with a Googley-image search. Seems theres a couple different types for the K-series.
Found the one I have. Yeah.... MY timing marks seem to be barely there, and "seem" to be the two "dashes" I originally saw. NO remains of a letter near them, tho.

Also, just came in from trying to follow this youtube vid, on how to set points with a DVM:


Still no go for me. The spark at the points seems inconsistently strong/weak, and also not even present thru some rotations.
I'm at quite the loss.

I've NEVER had good luck with power equipment small engines. Damn things seem to be voodoo to me, who has decades of serious wrenching on cars & trucks of quite a few makes & models. Both carb'ed & injected.
Give me something with more than at least 3 cylinders, DOZENS of wires & sensors, multiple cams, over these damn "simple" single cylinder, points-driven, less than 10 wires in the WHOLE electrical system, ANY day ... LOL

 

[A Urban]

Thanx for the pics, Paul. Yeahh.. I checked for timing hole on the front of the backing plate (both sides of engine), to see if there might be a hole for marks like that, but nope.

I think this is what mine is *supposed* to look like:

 

[dschwandt]

Here's some more pictures to confuse you.
With the keyway at "12" o'clock looking at the engine from the flywheel side, the SP mark should be at about 4PM
I know, the darn thing is upside down.

 

[lpalma]

I push a piece of steel wool or scrubby pad in the timing hole to clean the flywheel off. Works every time, no pun intended...

 

[A Urban]

Thanx for the pics & info David.
No way to reference the keyway right now, as the motor is in. I *wanted* to see if the thing runs, *before* we were gonna pull it, as I have to swap on a grass screen for the flywheel. Doesnt currently have one... may have to swap the pulley in front of it too

But motor *WILL* be coming out, and you can bet your butt, the trouble I've had with these timing marks, the blower cover will be coming off, and I will be wire-wheeling the rim, trying to find the "real" timing marks, & painting them. Then checking that everything (keyway/ex. valve/timing marks/points) are all matching the way they are supposed to be.

Did further shotgunning on the spark issue:
Swapped an old coil, old condenser in. Didnt change much w/spark at the points. So I pulled the points. While everything about the points assembly & bracket look in great shape, I had filed the points tabs quite a bit, but theres pitting in the center that just wont file out. I filed a ton more, so its better, but one tab still has a decent sized "stain" that looks pretty smooth, but just wont come out. Now, the spark jumps all around the rim of the tab in different spots (to avoid the center pitting I guess), where before it seemed to be mostly in just one spot to the side of center.

I'm going to see if I have another, usable set of points tomorrow... If not, I guess I see another $20-spot evaporating thru my fingers on this stubborn mule of a 122.

 

[A Urban]

I push a piece of steel wool or scrubby pad in the timing hole to clean the flywheel off. Works every time, no pun intended...

heh... I can *guar-own-TEE*, that wont work on this one. Western NY rust is like no other
I'm not even sure a wire wheel on a big ol' angle grinder will be quite enough.
Thanx for the suggestion tho

 

[dsarow]

The original marks thru the small hole most definitely are tough.When you have it apart,use a dremel to clean it up. Carefully paint with a safety color after a dimple with a center punch. Good luck,sounds like a ornery one

 

[mkeller]

Did you check the breaker plunger rod to see if it is a steel rod if it is aluminum you need to put a steel one in. There's a lot of ones that have not been updated

The original marks thru the small hole most definitely are tough.When you have it apart,use a dremel to clean it up. Carefully paint with a safety color after a dimple with a center punch. Good luck,sounds like a ornery one

 

[A Urban]

Thanx, both of you for the info!

Hmmm... I wanna say it looked steel... I'll give it the magnet test. It looked practically new. At least the business ends. Just light wear along the length from the shaft. Just waiting for a break in the rain, to pull/check the points from a 105 I may be parting out. If not that one, I also have the original motor out of this 122 in the garage to check, also.