Hydra Tranis.. cold sensitive?

[tkhoffman]

Fluid is full although I do not know the age of it.
New to me Cub.. no experience with Hydraulic tranis. Last week it was in the low 30's and I thought it was my imagination that I had to push the "Forward" control up a bit more before I started rolling. After a few minutes .I was sure it was my imagination as the tractor function as I remembered it.
Today, Temp is in the high 20's and I had the Throttle up full and the Forward lever up full and not even a hint of trying to roll. Within 5 minutes of that, everything was fine Forward and reverse acted normal and pulled fine.
Old fluid, wrong fluid, maybe this is normal in cold temps?
Please educate me.

 

[fcurrier]

It's normal.

 

[tkhoffman]

fluid needs to circulate and warm up .

Will it do this if I did not try to move at all? As in, start the tractor and let it run in the Neutral position for 5 minutes. OR do I have to be trying to move until it decides its happy

 

[fcurrier]

Letting it warm up can't hurt a thing and will also give the engine some warm-up time. One of the setbacks to starting a hydro in cold weather is that the pump immediately starts circulating the fluid. I've heard of, but never seen, a clutch setup for hydros.

 

[digger]

Frank C.

 

[tkhoffman]

I let machines warm up a bit.. So that's OK. The plan was to start the tractor, on a snowy morning, slowly chug it out from where it is I guess that wont work if it doesn't move.. No biggy so long as it is 'normal' to not function right away. I wonder if this expensive Variable Viscosity stuff that I need to use in my new tractor would work well in the cold on the Cub.
Mobile DTE 10 to just name one source. It is what it is for this year. Just happy the Cub seems to be reliable at this point.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Tony H. Just some thoughts on cold mornings and expecting your Cub Cadet hydro to "just start up and be ready to go". Do you expect your automatic transmission vehicle that you drive to do the same thing? If so then you can really also expect to shorten the life expectancy drmatically by doing so. Be realistic with ANY OIL in cold weahter. It needs time to warm up. From the minute your tractor engine begins to turn over unless you have the clutch that Charlie P. pictured then you can be sure that your hydro pump/motor system is ALSO turning over. THE DIFFERENCE IS... Your hydro system is set in neutral and oil is not trying to be forced into providing movement of the tractor.

BE REASONABLE and ALLOW SUFFICIENT WARM UP TIME. I would recommend at least a couple of minutes if the temp drops below freezing. Then start out slow.

Finally... I am NOT shouting ... Just trying to instill using common sense when using ANY brand garden tractor with a hydrostatic or hydrualic (CASE/Ingersoll) tranmission system in cold weather.

 

[tkhoffman]

Marlin, Don't get me wrong. I am the King of Very High Mileage cars and taking care of them.
Heck, the 'new' car I have is my '89 Volvo with 330+ K Miles . But with the cars I do idle out of the neighborhood to allow theEngine to warm up as well as the Wheel bearing and 'U' joint grease. I am the opposite of 'Jump in and go'.
That was my thought with the Cub. I figured the scenario of Starting the engine give it a bit of warmup, then chug to the driveway as it continues to warm up.
I was just taken back by Zero movement with the hydra trani.

 

[hsimon]

You can also use a magnetic block heater on the transmission sump case to help warm the oil so that it flow easier.

 

[fcurrier]

Listen to Hugh. It's a relatively cheap solution. SIS has a green farm tractor and it's working for her. However - it's a counteractive device for the moisture that seems to screw up the flow of fluid thru the filter on the green tractor. That moisture seems to come naturally during the course of a season.
As I'm typing this I'm realizing it's 2 different situations - moisture in a filter and cold hydraulic fluid. Should we start a contest to see how cold a well tuned engine backed by a hydro transmission will start?

 

[mhomrighausen]

The moisture in the transmission is due to the oil not being able to get warm enough to dissapate the moisture created by the cold housing. Even gear drive tractors can and will get that buildup. If I have a good battery in the Keepsake 1650 or the 125 it has to get really cold before they won't start. And they aren't always freshly tuned up before snow removal duties come up.

If you want to see some watery oil then be fortunate enough to go to a car/truck dealer in the winter time that starts their inventory and runs the vehicles just long enough to shuffle the inventory around. Or an implement dealer that does the same thing with machinery.

 

[tkhoffman]

I've seen these KATS Magnet Heaters. I was looking at them for my Big Tractor that is in another location and sees much colder weather.
I will see how this Cub fits into my routine to see how important it really is to have the thing mobile quicker.
It's snowing today , first time this year. A wet 2-4" expected. I've always shoveled or blew the snow but I have the plow on this Cub.. I may just have to jump on. My snow removal routine may be changed forever.

 

[tkhoffman]

Sorry to get back to this again Yesterday; 17*F
Took 10 minutes to get the girl to roll. Tonight snow and in the single digits, I wonder how long it will take to start to roll. Normal or maybe frozen moisture in the system?
No Case/IH dealer for 200 miles .. I know many of you are very Pro Hy-Tran but I wonder if I should bite the bullet, get a NAPA filter and put in an equivalent ISO 68 that I can buy local.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-Heavy-Duty-Tractor-Hydraulic-and-Transmission-Fluid/16213442

 

[fcurrier]

Tony, I think it's time for a filter & fluid change! Make sure you get the right NAPA filter and Wal-Mart fluid will do just fine for now. Shouldn't cost maybe 30-35 bucks and at least you'll know you have new. Don't tell anyone, but we have a 7275 and when I change her fluid (not HyTran) I save it and use it in her little cousins. Only problem I've ever had is the time I left a paper towel in a rear end. The right side axle housing doesn't drain when you drain the rear - just thinking water in there may be freezing. Good luck!

 

[sblunier]

YES, Change the fluid. If you can't get to Hy-Tran, then Type F ATF isn't a bad substitute. The filter is likely plugged with water sludge and causing the problems........that "peanut butter" in the rear end won't pump (or lubricate, or protect, or prevent corrosion, etc.)

Get a new filter and rear end gasket. Pull the rear end cover and completely clean out all of the crap, then replace filter and refill.......

They should move within a minute at a slow pace, just to get it outside the shed and let it warm up.

Continuing to starve the hydro while it "warms up" will cause more damage until you fix the fluid/filter issue.........cold or not, there isn't oil flowing, or there would be movement. No oil = bad for hydro unit.

BTW, I just had the exact same issue with a 2182 that was full of water....power steering wouldn't work, lift was slow, hydro sluggish.....clean-out, filter and fluid and all is good as new!!!!

 

[sblunier]

Other L&G users of the SU-15 hydro spec'ed Type F as their recommended fluid.

 

[dtanner]

I have to agree with Steve B ; I had auto trans fluid in a tractor and the hydro was in great shape when I took it apart to replace the damaged main shaft. But as he stated take off the rear end cover and clean up all the old crap out. You will be god to go.

 

[tkhoffman]

Hmm, Gasket, that could be a problem as far as buying local. I was hoping NAPA had a cross.. I don't see it. Their filter is #1410. Any thoughts on a gasket I can get locally? I know I can get it at the sponsor above, just hoping to do this over the weekend

 

[tkhoffman]

Thanks guys. 1 minute until slow movement.. That was the answer to my original fumbly question.
Right Side Axle DOESN'T drain?? is that normal or was that your paper towel foible?

The Book says 7 qts. Is that about what drains out or is most of the fluid stuck in the trani and lift pistons so the refill is less than 7 qts?

 

[sblunier]

You'll need all 7 qts.....it all comes out. Not much left in the axle housings, for the most part they drain through the bearings, just not all of it....no big deal.

Started my 2072 to move snow last night. It was 8 deg outside. Started right up and I could move hydraulics and steering within 15-20 sec (slow) and drove it 10' out the door to warm up outside within 1st 45 sec. After a couple minutes of warm up I started moving snow at about 1/2 throttle (still had slow, cold, hydraulics) and after 10 min. all was warmed up and functioning at full speed just like summer.

You need a good cleaning, new filter, and oil......it will make all the difference.

BTW, always take it smooth and slow (1/2 throttle) with the hydro for the first few minutes when it's that cold.......even 10wt hydraulic fluid doesn't like to flow when it's that cold.......