Engine oil

[tkhoffman]

SCOTT - I called Shell's ANSWER MAN for oil questions a couple times just to ask how much ZDDP Rotella had. He said all the different viscosities had some, but depended on it's rating, but the 15W-40 I used in my 7.3L was 1400 PPM. Guy I talked to one time said the straight weights, 30W, 40W, think there was a 50W mostly to use in Detroit Diesel engines, the screaming 2-strokes, not the big 4 stroke Cummins Clones.
SON is running 10W-30 Rotella T-5 semi-synthetic in my old 7.3L now, has run 2-3 changes of it. It was his daily driver 7-8 miles to/from work for about 6-8 months. The semi-synthetic lighter weight oil made it start unassisted after work much easier. I ran a couple changes of 10W-30 every winter for the same reason when it was my daily driver. It really helped starting. I also got my best fuel MPG with 10W-30 oil on those nice spring days too.
I have not talked to SHELL since ROTELLA changed to their T-4, T-5, & T-6 formulas. I suspect it still has ZDDP, it's rated CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, and CH-4. The old pre T-4 stuff was rated the same except the CK-4 didn't exist yet, and it also has an SM spark engine rating. I'm switching my old flat tappet gasoline engines all over to Rotella 15W-40 T-4. The valve springs have REALLY low pressures, no need for much ZDDP, I always thought it was funny, I started using Rotella for my 7.3L PSD, and it was the ONLY engine I used it in that didn't need ZDDP, it had those funky ball mounted rocker arms, and some sort of roller cam followers, I can't remember if it had roller tipped rocker arms or not, might have.
Far as what works in my old FARMALL M & Super H, some people still put Non-Detergent oil like the 1939 owners manual recommends.
I used Mobil 1 in my 2006 Volvo S40, using Mobil 1 in my 2018 RAM 1500 5.7L Hemi. Since I'm only driving +/- 3000 miles a year on the RAM I change the oil once a year. Short trips and stop & go driving are harder on oil than long highway trips. Seems like every trip I make is 5 miles each way.

300 miles a year between oil changes... Why not stay with cheaper DINO oil. It's all I use. My engined are at 200k and 300k miles no engine work other then timing chain and timing belt maintenance

 

[snicklas]

300 miles a year between oil changes... Why not stay with cheaper DINO oil. It's all I use. My engined are at 200k and 300k miles no engine work other then timing chain and timing belt maintenance

He may be doing it, because of the oil that is spec'ed for the engine.

I have a 2011 F-150 3.5 EcoBoost. That engine, due to tolerances and the turbo, specs a 5w-30, which in the Motorcraft brand, is a semi-synthetic. I believe to get it that "thin", it has to be a synthetic blend, as they can't get straight dino to a 5w.... It gets the Motorcraft oil and filter (this is the ONLY vehicle that I take in, and to the dealer no less, to get changed) because it's not much more than it costs me to do it, and with all the air dams and covers on an EB engine, I just let them do it. I had a 3.7 F-150 that was not an EB, and it was easy to change, no air dams, covers and no CAC piping.

My 03 6.0 Excursion gets full synthetic for easier starting. The 7.3PSD and 6.0PSD have a HEUI injection system. It uses engine lubrication oil, that is run through a HPOP (Hi-Pressure Oil Pump) to fire the injectors. There has to be a MINIMUM of 500PSI of oil pressure for the injectors to fire and start the engine. (a 6.0 can run from 500-4000PSI of Hi Pressure Oil Pressure to run the injectors). The HPOP is a mechanical oil pump, so it has to create the oil pressure while cranking the engine.. and the 5w-40 Full Synthetic makes it much easier to start, in any weather, but really shines when it is cold out... 15w-40 when it is cold (think approaching 32 and below) has the pour characteristics of molasses.... so not only when starting, do the glow plugs run (8 plugs ~10 seconds) then you are trying to crank against 18:1 compression and move oil that is not really fluid, any hiccup, and you are not going to get it to start....

 

[jdrong]

Due to the low spring rate used in these flathead Kohler engines, a high Zinc content oil, or additives, really aren't needed. Remember the days when Briggs & Stratton ran plastic camshafts? The spring rates didn't change, just the cam material and these seemed to last just fine. We have the advantage of low tappet/cam forces due to the light spring rates and relatively low rpm that our engines run. In all my years of working on small engines, I've never seen a spalled cam surface or lifter.

I couldn't agree more. I believe the troubles with ruined camshafts and lifters started long before the reduction in zinc. Mostly on modified, rebuilt car engines and not properly breaking in a new cam with flat tappet lifters. I've never even thought about adding zinc to my 149 when changing the oil. My engine was rebuilt a number of years ago and abused by the previous owner. Most of the population had no idea that zinc was reduced or removed. The new oils lubricate much better than ever, actually. When I was a kid an engine with 50-60k on it was usually worn out. Now an engine with a 100k is considered low mileage... Why is that? Better oil is one of the big factors. These old outdated Kohler flatheads with their low valve spring pressures seem to last forever, even without zinc added.

 

[mfrade]

one of the problems with the zddp additive cans was that the additive just puddled and really never blended in to do any real work for the motor. Shops were reporting that they could actually see the separated fluid come draining out from the basepan. I don't know if that issue was "fixed" but once guys found out diesel oils had the required or better zinc included, they just started using that oil

 

[digger]

Due to the low spring rate used in these flathead Kohler engines, a high Zinc content oil, or additives, really aren't needed. Remember the days when Briggs & Stratton ran plastic camshafts? The spring rates didn't change, just the cam material and these seemed to last just fine. We have the advantage of low tappet/cam forces due to the light spring rates and relatively low rpm that our engines run. In all my years of working on small engines, I've never seen a spalled cam surface or lifter.

And now we're running plastic governors.

 

[John Will]

I was always told 10-30 if it has a filter, 30 without except for 5-30 for snowblowers. Now the schools have been telling me 10-40 in hot weather, especially if it is commercial or used hard. Now they are adding in that oil for our engines from Kawasaki, Toro, and some of the other manufacturers has had zinc added which should help our engines, but will foul a catalytic converter. I am starting to think I will need a science degree in a couple of years just to get the right oil.

 

[mgonitzke]

I was always told 10-30 if it has a filter, 30 without except for 5-30 for snowblowers.

Quite a few small engines have an optional oil filter depending on application. If what you say had any truth to it, why would you use a different weight oil in one version that has the filter than another version that doesn't, even when the rest of the engine is identical?

I am starting to think I will need a science degree in a couple of years just to get the right oil.

All you really need to do is follow the manufacturer's recommendations in the owners/service manual, and ignore all the old wives' tales you hear.

 

[gary noblit]

I installed a new Kaw. 24 hp last yr...paperwork said 10-40.....the tales go on forever rather your talking hunting, fishing ,tires or small engines....hopefully this forum will disperse a few of those....

 

[jkoenig]

Tires? You mean like letting Ford tell how you how full to inflate your Firestone tires on your Explorer?

...stirring the pot...

 

[Jake Olsen]

Torque specs-they changed the wheel torque specs on my ram Dually from 140 to 129.

 

[jack casey]

Greg has posted LOTS of good accurate information in this post. Only thing I can add is the service & maintenance manual printed by Kawasaki for the 27 hp V-twin Kawasaki engine in my Cub Cadet TANK mentions using ROTELLA 15W-40 specifically. I've called Shell's Answer Man several times and every time they assured me that Rotella had 1200 to 1400 PPM ZDDP in it, lots of old diesels had flat tappets in them. Diesel engines need an oil with HIGH detergency to deal with SOOT, that's what the black smoke is, and ROTELLA does an excellent job cleaning soot and other deposits out of engines, turbo diesel engines run at high temps, they have exhaust gas temp gauges, intercoolers, oil coolers, huge radiators, and oil jets to spray cooled & filtered oil on the underside of pistons to keep them from melting while they run flat out hour after hour after hour, I used to push them hard as they would go 12+ hours straight. A C rated oil, stands for COMPRESSION IGNITION engine runs fine in a spark ignition engine that sprcifies an S rated oil. An engine without an oil filter should most definitely use detergent oil. The only thing I can think to use non-detergent oil for is to oil the rollers on your garage doors and the big coil springs that counter-balance the doors.

It's getting really hard to find LOW ASH OIL now days. Used to be Viscosity Oil blended and packaged Low Ash oil specifically for IH, their 6 cyl gasoline tractors really extended exhaust valve life using it. CIH switched to buying oil from SHELL and only a few CIH dealers are still buying it from Viscosity Oil, I did hear FARM OYL makes a Low Ash oil some CIH dealers stock.
I've used non-low ash oil for years and years in Cub Cadets. A hard black carbon layer forms around the outside of the exhaust valve which insulates the exh valve from dissipating heat into the valve guide and the block, you get into some tall grass, shove the throttle wide open for 2-3 minutes and the exhuast valve will start to stick. If you pull the cylinder head to remove carbon, also remove the breather plate beneath the carb, remove the valve keepers, remove the exh valve and scrape the hard black carbon off the valve stem.

Greg has posted LOTS of good accurate information in this post. Only thing I can add is the service & maintenance manual printed by Kawasaki for the 27 hp V-twin Kawasaki engine in my Cub Cadet TANK mentions using ROTELLA 15W-40 specifically. I've called Shell's Answer Man several times and every time they assured me that Rotella had 1200 to 1400 PPM ZDDP in it, lots of old diesels had flat tappets in them. Diesel engines need an oil with HIGH detergency to deal with SOOT, that's what the black smoke is, and ROTELLA does an excellent job cleaning soot and other deposits out of engines, turbo diesel engines run at high temps, they have exhaust gas temp gauges, intercoolers, oil coolers, huge radiators, and oil jets to spray cooled & filtered oil on the underside of pistons to keep them from melting while they run flat out hour after hour after hour, I used to push them hard as they would go 12+ hours straight. A C rated oil, stands for COMPRESSION IGNITION engine runs fine in a spark ignition engine that sprcifies an S rated oil. An engine without an oil filter should most definitely use detergent oil. The only thing I can think to use non-detergent oil for is to oil the rollers on your garage doors and the big coil springs that counter-balance the doors.

It's getting really hard to find LOW ASH OIL now days. Used to be Viscosity Oil blended and packaged Low Ash oil specifically for IH, their 6 cyl gasoline tractors really extended exhaust valve life using it. CIH switched to buying oil from SHELL and only a few CIH dealers are still buying it from Viscosity Oil, I did hear FARM OYL makes a Low Ash oil some CIH dealers stock.
I've used non-low ash oil for years and years in Cub Cadets. A hard black carbon layer forms around the outside of the exhaust valve which insulates the exh valve from dissipating heat into the valve guide and the block, you get into some tall grass, shove the throttle wide open for 2-3 minutes and the exhuast valve will start to stick. If you pull the cylinder head to remove carbon, also remove the breather plate beneath the carb, remove the valve keepers, remove the exh valve and scrape the hard black carbon off the valve stem.

A small point. My local auto supply, Miele in Pearl River, is well-staffed by the same guys for many years, the reason I don't go to Advance or Auto zone.
This morning I was asked why I'm buying detergent oil - told him for a Kohler K241 - he asked if it has a filter. No. Then it's good to use non-detergent oil. Why? With detergent oil the 'dirt' gets suspended in the oil and is removed in the filter. With non-detergent oil the dirt settles to the bottom and flows out better with an oil change. So, I bought a couple quarts. Now, I'm cornfused 'cause my K-Series service manual says use detergent oil. However, the manual is as old as my K241 and in the following years non-detergent oil, with technology, may have improved qualities that make it more useful than oiling garage door rollers. Hmmmm!
Any thoughts? Jack

 

[mgonitzke]

A small point. My local auto supply, Miele in Pearl River, is well-staffed by the same guys for many years, the reason I don't go to Advance or Auto zone.
This morning I was asked why I'm buying detergent oil - told him for a Kohler K241 - he asked if it has a filter. No. Then it's good to use non-detergent oil. Why? With detergent oil the 'dirt' gets suspended in the oil and is removed in the filter. With non-detergent oil the dirt settles to the bottom and flows out better with an oil change. So, I bought a couple quarts. Now, I'm cornfused 'cause my K-Series service manual says use detergent oil. However, the manual is as old as my K241 and in the following years non-detergent oil, with technology, may have improved qualities that make it more useful than oiling garage door rollers. Hmmmm!
Any thoughts? Jack

Your local auto supply guy is a moron. Non-detergent oil is for air compressors and engines older than the mid 1950's or so, regardless of whether or not they have an oil filter. Detergent oil has ALWAYS been the correct oil for a K-series, and that has not changed. You will not find a non-detergent oil that meets the minimum API spec required.

 

[R Mass1]

Your local auto supply guy is a moron. Non-detergent oil is for air compressors and engines older than the mid 1950's or so, regardless of whether or not they have an oil filter. Detergent oil has ALWAYS been the correct oil for a K-series, and that has not changed. You will not find a non-detergent oil that meets the minimum API spec required.

Just a note. I've used NON-detergent straight 30W in my Kohler 241 Cub Cadets for 40 years and never had any problems, no rebuilds, no excessive oil consumption, or anything. I was told many years ago the same thing this guy's auto supply said and it made sense then and it makes sense now. JMO.

 

[rrschmitt]

Sucks that Case-IH switched to a new oil supplier the other year and did away with Low-Ash 30 wt. Glad it's still available through Cub Cadet.

 

[R Mass1]

What oil is everyone using these days. All I can seem to find anymore is full synthetic or a synthetic blend. No Dino oil and no straight 30 wt at all. Thank you.

I've had luck finding the straight 30W and 30W ND at some local self-serve gas stations. You might want to just walk the aisles and check their shelves at whatever you have locally. Usually about $5 a quart.

 

[RAllison]

Jake I've found straight 30 at rural king,if you have 1 around you...Rotella

 

[Jake Olsen]

Robert I did find just straight 30 weight dino oil at a cal ranch store and bought a bunch of it.

 

[RAllison]

Gotta admitt it's beginning to get scarce around me too...weird

 

[1811Cub]

ND oil is a very small market, so no surprise it is fading away. The reg SAE30 is still easy to find around here.

 

[Jake Olsen]

It is weird because they are still drilling and getting it out of the ground around here.