Convert Kohler MV16 to Horizontal

[mtarsus]

Hello,

I have decided to use the MV16 that originally came from my 1430 to power a go kart, which I intend to build from the ground up, including the frame.

However, before that can be done, I must convert the MV16 to a horizontal platform in order to better suit the drive train of the go kart.

I have found the following thread from weekendfreedommachines, which gives a pretty thorough walkthrough of the conversion process.

http://www.weekendfreedommachines.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=335&post=207722#POST207722

However, I do have an additional question to ask you guys, and I am sure that as time goes on, I will be coming up with more questions and/or posting stuff in this thread.

Firstly, do you guys know if the parts from the MV16 are interchangeable with an 18 or 20? I know that some of the parts are designed differently from vertical to horizontal, such as the oil pan, but will those parts be interchangeable between the M16, 18, and 20, or are they going to be slightly different sizes, and thus make it impossible to properly convert the engine? The reason I ask this specifically about the 16, is because the M16 is the only engine out of the three that has a different displacement than the others. The 18 20 and are tuned differently and may use slightly different rods, etc., but in essence they are the same engine. The 16 is quite distinct, and therefore I am worried that the peripheral engine parts will also be different, not just the pistons, jugs, etc....

 

[jchamberlin]

Mark: I'm not sure of the answer to your specific question, but generally speaking, I can tell you that from a manufacturer's perspective, the idea is to get the maximum variety into the hands of the customer with the least amount of variation (that is, "work") on the part of the manufacturer, which includes engineering as well as production. I can't imagine there would be significant variation in parts in order to hit the "16 HP Market" versus the 18 HP or 20 HP market.

Regarding the conversion of orientation: what I took away from the accounts of others reported on this site was that the project, while doable, was quite challenging, andnot for the faint of heart (or limited mechanical and engineering skills). It seems to me that someone converted a vertical Kohler to horizontal for use in his 782. I remember photos of the 782 in the snow. I want to say he posted a response to a comment from me. I'll have to do a search and get back to you.

I hope you hear from others with more particulars who have performed the same or similar conversions.

Good luck.

 

[mtarsus]

I ask this because it appears that the M16 was a 1-cylinder while the MV16 was the only 2 cylinder of its kind. Therefore I would have to use parts from the 18 or 20......

That is a moot point, though; my research has shown that it is, indeed, far easier to simply buy a M18 or M20 horizontal. I am surfing CL and 3Bay at this time.

My next question:

I am thinking about maybe trying to implement some kind of 4-wheel drive system for this go kart. At this time I am not sure if it is too complicated to bother, but more importantly, I am wondering if 18 or 20HP would be enough to run a 4-wheel drive system. I would imagine that it might reduce the power significantly at each tire, and therefore I would have to gear it really low and make a crawler out of it. My hope is to have something that can go 30mph but still climb through reasonably hilly and/or rocky terrain (like an unplowed field, or maybe across a shallow stream).

So, if I were to create a 4-wheel drivetrain for this go kart, should I try to use a transfer case similar to what you would find on a real truck, or should I try to do something belt driven?

Also, would I be able to mate the engine to a transmission from a motorcycle? I imagine it would be OK, I would just have to use the crankshaft to drive a chain into the transmission.....

 

[aschumacher]

Mark, maybe by the time you figure all this out, what you have maybe more commonly known as an ATV.

 

[mtarsus]

Yes, but it will come with the satisfaction of having done it myself.

 

[aschumacher]

Received and understood...Go for it !

 

[aschumacher]

Mark, all sorts of neat finds on the web.
Lookie here...
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18698

 

[aschumacher]

www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5263
might be an even better starting place...

 

[mtarsus]

John,

If you've read my 1430 snowblower thread, you will find that I like to spout all kinds of big ideas but usually settle on something much simpler. This is something I intend to work on slowly over the course of a year or two, so it will mostly be on stilts in the garage. If I wanted to turn something out before next summer, then I would probably buy a kit for one of those low-to-the-ground karts that usually have the engine in the back and your feet sit right beside the front wheels.

As for the motor conversion, I have decided to just buy a horizontal block and then rebuild it using the other parts from the MV16. I found a block on 3Bay for $110.

 

[mtarsus]

I found an engine block for an M18 for $100. It also has the oil spout on it. I am not sure if it has the bolts for the cylinders, though. It includes the bottom piece that mounts to the engine. I think I will buy it.

Does anyone know if the block for the M18 might be incompatible with the MV16 parts? To the best of my knowledge, they should fit together, but if there is something that I have missed then I will wind up having to just build a whole new engine with more parts ($$$, not an issue in the long run but something I would prefer to avoid).

 

[mtarsus]

I am checking the parts catalog on the Kohler website, cross-referencing the engine parts 1-to-1. They are indeed using different parts with different part numbers for more than a few things. Obviously, the crankshaft is different because the V models needed an extra ~3" inches to compensate for the oil pan, whereas the H models had nothing, so the shaft was shorter. I am not sure if the V shaft with work with an H model; best case scenario, shaft is a little long for the engine and I can either live with it or cut it to length. Worst case scenario, the diameter of the shaft might interfere with the seal for the disparate crank case, in which case it would have to be tooled and I do not own a lathe.

Secondly, the cylinder jugs and pistons/heads are different, but I don't see that being a huge issue because I will be using the jugs/pistons/heads from one model only and they will therefore fit one another.

EDIT: I have checked the crankshafts using real photos from 3Bay. I was correct, the shaft is a different diameter in the area where it is expected to meet the crank case seal. It looks lik I'll need a different crank shaft as well. I am thinking once again that it would be a better idea to just buy a horizontal engine, although I would really love the challenge of doing this and making it work. I'll have to think on it and make up my mind.

 

[mtarsus]

To add another in a series of endless posts, I have reviewed the website from that original link, and converting the engine is really quite easy. I would only have to drill a new hole for the oil tube, and then plug the old hole for the vertical oil tube. It would also need a hole drilled for the dipstick. By keeping the oil pan and everything, I would be able to work with what I already have. The only things I need in this scenario are:

Horizontal oil spout
Horizontal oil pump tube and screen-filter assembly
Horizontal intake manifold (on order, $18 on 3Bay)

There may be 1 or 2 extra parts but I haven't become aware at this time.

I would also have to tap new holes for the dipstick and oil plug. The oil pump tube needs a hole drilled as well. I am not quite sure how I could plug the hole for the vertical dipstick. perhaps I could just mush up some epoxy and stuff it into the hole, although that strikes me as a potential fail-point in the future.

 

[aschumacher]

Mark, would the hole location let you use a 1/2 inch pipe tap ? then just put a plug in it.

 

[mtarsus]

Allen,

That's a pretty good idea. I will look more closely as I begin to strip down the engine. If the metal is too thin then I won't want to risk tapping it. Do you think it would be OK to run a tap through 1/16' metal?

 

[nbextermueller]

Just use a micrometer (or similar) to measure the hole and get an automotive freeze plug to put in the hole. Just don't hammer to hard to risk putting a hole in the block.

 

[mtarsus]

Once the engine is running sideways, I will begin gathering parts for the actual build. That part probably won't happen until this beast of a house has been finished (1 side gutted, renovated, rented, now to do the same with my side). I'm just going to hoard materials in the corner of the shed, then start tinkering when the house is done.