Cold Start

[bmoore]

Thanks for the info @Curt Doles I have a trickle charger and I use it frequently. I'm curious about what you consider a high quality trickle charger. Perhaps my harbor freight job isn't cutting it? It does make a difference and that is why I keep using it. It has rescued my not so good batteries many a time. It's just that when the cold sets in, its not enough. I'm still thinking that I just have bad luck with tractor batteries. For now, the jump pack I just got is working out good.

I saw a guy who had a light duty charger/maintainer plugged into an outlet controlled by the light timer on the garage door opener. The light (and outlet) would go live every time the opener operated, and I believe he could adjust the time it stayed on. If you opened the door in the morning to back out and let the car warm up, the charger would run for five or ten minutes. Same when you came home and put the car back in the garage. It was enough to maintain the charge in the battery, not intended to bring one to full charge.

 

[Greg Riutzel]

I use a similar Tractor Supply brand battery in my LTX-1050KW, but I can't seem to get much more than a year out of them. So I put a Die Hard 320 cca in my 782 about a year ago and now that the temperature dropped, it is having trouble cranking my 782 starter.

That's interesting that it seems to be down to a year's life on batteries. I'd check all the electrical connections for clean and tight. Check the alternator's output for charging current to make sure it's keeping the battery up to snuff. Check the starter relay for voltage drop. Have the starter motor checked at a shop. There may even be a system drain on the battery with every thing off but something's not totally off and "leaking". These tractors don't come broke from the factory, but wear and tear take a toll that a good fix rather than bandaids will put it back to spec. Cold brings out all the weaknesses. Even a dry/dirty starter motor or dirty/loose connections might masquerade as a weak battery. One way to rule out leakage is check the battery voltage when you're done using the tractor. Then check it before starting the next time. If it's a big difference, confirm it by checking after the next use and then disconnect the battery. When you return for the next job, check the voltage before you hook it back up.

 

[tkhoffman]

I was wondering who else might think of that..

I thought of this but never implemented it. With many snowy mornings being -10F, separating the thick hydro oil from cranking of the Starter seems like a great idea. I wondered if I could hook up the same solenoid setup as the front Mule or maybe a simple clutch setup that is on many Walk Behind Brush Hogs.
I never looked into the Cub Clutch that is used on some Cadets. Maybe it's easier then my ideas

 

[jdrong]

I thought of this but never implemented it. With many snowy mornings being -10F, separating the thick hydro oil from cranking of the Starter seems like a great idea. I wondered if I could hook up the same solenoid setup as the front Mule or maybe a simple clutch setup that is on many Walk Behind Brush Hogs.
I never looked into the Cub Clutch that is used on some Cadets. Maybe it's easier then my ideas

If you get all the right parts needed, it will bolt right in. As I stated earlier, at the time all I could find at a fair price was a clutch from a narrow frame. I have a 149, so the clutch arm and linkage rod had to be modified. I highly recommend this modification for cold winter starting. I don't believe there is a better modification for easier Winter or Summer starting.

 

[HKCooper44]

What is happening?
Does the engine not crank?
Does the starter kick out too soon?
My 782 hates cold. It always starts but it takes many attempts. I'm talking 10F and below.

My 782 (obtained at an auction last year) was always a bear to start. The starter kicked out too soon, and all choking did was flood the engine. I put in a new fuel.pump, but nothing changed. Once while mowing, it quit cold. After towing to my garage, I checked the gas, points, etc., but I had no spark. So, I replaced the coil, and not only did it start, it now starts nearly as quick as I can turn the key! The old coil was weak!

 

[tkhoffman]

My 782 (obtained at an auction last year) was always a bear to start. The starter kicked out too soon, and all choking did was flood the engine. I put in a new fuel.pump, but nothing changed. Once while mowing, it quit cold. After towing to my garage, I checked the gas, points, etc., but I had no spark. So, I replaced the coil, and not only did it start, it now starts nearly as quick as I can turn the key! The old coil was weak!

I've had issues with Kohler coils, they die very young. The Harley Davidson aftermarket has been holding tough for 10 years now. Same OHM specs as the Kohler.
I found the 782 starts easier if you Crank it as you pull out the choke. Don't pull out the choke then crank away.

 

[tkhoffman]

You mentioned you recently installed a new battery, yet Listening to your video, your engine cranks slow after a few revolutions. I wonder if your cable from Solenoid to starter is comprised. A little cranking thru a bad wire creates heat which creates resistance. I'm not saying this is the whole 'fix' but it may be a piece of puzzle. That critical wire is 30+ years old.

 

[jack casey]

You mentioned you recently installed a new battery, yet Listening to your video, your engine cranks slow after a few revolutions. I wonder if your cable from Solenoid to starter is comprised. A little cranking thru a bad wire creates heat which creates resistance. I'm not saying this is the whole 'fix' but it may be a piece of puzzle. That critical wire is 30+ years old.

See my post of Feb 14 2023 titled 'Slow cranking K241.'

 

[jack casey]

See my post of Feb 14 2023 titled 'Slow cranking K241.'

Sorry, I'm Jack Casey

 

[HKCooper44]

I got my 782 with 900 hours on the clock at an auction a little over a year ago. The first thing it needed was a starter, which was no fun to R & R. Then I found that it was hard to start. Full choke would immediately flood the engine. When it did fire, it would fire once then kick out the starter.....repeatedly.

A magnetic heater on the transaxle will help a lot.

What do you have against using 10W-30 oil like the engine manual states to use in cold weather?

My 782 manual (4-83) states to 7se SAE 30, and NOT to substitute 10-30 or 10-40 above 32F, and to use SAE 10W below 32F.

 

[mgonitzke]

My 782 manual (4-83) states to 7se SAE 30, and NOT to substitute 10-30 or 10-40 above 32F, and to use SAE 10W below 32F.

The current Kohler manual (which is newer than the owner's manual for the tractor) shows SAE 30 above 32°F, 10W-30 or 10W-40 from 0 to 32°F, and 5W-20 or 5W-30 for any temperature below 32°F. Multiviscosity oils are "not recommended above 32°F. Using these oils substantially increases oil consumption and combustion chamber deposits."

Good luck finding straight 10W motor oil in 2023.

 

[HKCooper44]

I have gallons of it from the '60's. But I don't use the tractor in the winter anyway.

 

[jdrong]

I have been using 10w-30 or 10w-40 for decades in my Kohler engines, in fact all the engines that I have. I have not experienced increased, or any oil consumption at all nor had a problem with "combustion chamber deposits". Just my experience... other people's experiences may vary.

 

[HKCooper44]

Agree.

 

[HKCooper44]

I bought a Cadet 782 at an auction a little over a year ago. It was a CCC-manufactured unit, built for IH, which seems to make it an '81 or '82 model. It has a KT-17 Series II engine. From the git-go, it was very hard to start. Choking the engine per the operator's manual resulted in immediate flooding. Once the engine did fire, it would kick over once, then kick out the starter, repeatedly (what a lousey design this is!). Once I got it running, all was good....for a time. Soon, after mowing for 30 minutes, it began to run rough, basically firing only on one cylinder. Readjusting the carb had NO effect. Both plugs were sooted up, so I installed a spare set. Once the engine was cooled down some, it started and ran fine. Twenty minutes later, it back to the same problem. Days later, the engine just quit. No putt-putt-putt, gasp, gasp like running out of fuel...it just quit cold. I had no spark from the coil at all. So, I replaced the coil, and the engine started on the first crank! I didn't even have to choke it! It had run perfectly ever since. I did then relocate the coil so it isn't sitting on top of the engine, absorbing all that heat!
In reading the starting procedure in the ops manual, especially in the convoluted section regarding cold weather, Kohler knew well that there was a problem with this engine!

 

[user 19791]

I use synthetic oil in my old garden tractors in the winter. It starts so much easier than using conventional oil in cold weather. Better for the starter too.

 

[dsarow]

I take a paint pen and write the fully charged battery reading on the battery.I can check periodically, before,after using or after sitting for a long time.A multi meter and a battery maintainer are great tools to have in a guys arsenal

 

[HKCooper44]

I bought a CCC 782 at an auction two years ago. I had trouble getting it started, especially in colder weather. What I found was fuel was leaking padt the carb needle valve, flooding the cylinders. This happened anytime the fuel tank was over 1/2 full. Replacement carbs are mostly Chinese junk, with chokes set up exactly backwards! So I installed a fuel shutoff valve in the fuel.line just before the pump, and installed Autolite 27 plugs (hotter). Now, using the choke and setting the throttle 1/3 open, it starts much better, but it needs a bit of choke for about 5 minutes until the engine warms up.