Archive through October 13, 2009

[jott]

I usually mow at around 3/4 throtlle depending on the grass height. For just putting around, I go between idle and 1/2 throttle with gear and hydro drives. The operators manuals tell you to run the hydros at full throttle for the best fluid/oil flow but I only push the gas up as far i see fit to get any job done. Hope that doesnt start any arguments

Scott S, How in the heck did you put those tires on? I just put my tri ribs on the narrow rims and I is cake work, even easier than the rear tires. What brand of tri ribs and what ply are they? the ones I got are 4 ply and I think the name is King tire or something. I will confirm that tomorow.

Matt S, Umm... were are you seeing those creepers for $100-$150? It isnt very common. Im not saying I havnt seen it, but its rare. Just my 0.02

Andrew S, Great looking CC 106! if you like gear drives, your best bet is get a Creeeper. they are great for tall grass and a definate must for snowblowing.

 

[bjrainey]

'Tis the season!!!
25more loads to go and I'll be good for the winter.

 

[dross]

B johnson thats a Quiet line gas tank. the coupler is not stock.

 

[jott]

Brett M, I cant find a picutre of the driveshaft coupler, but its just like the narrow frame hydros... I think

Here is the correct kind of of gas tank that should be on it..

 

[kide]

There are a number of reasons to NOT lug these engines down. As Matt Gonitzke points out, you CAN have cooling problems, you can also have lubrication problems - remember, this is a essentially a splash oiling system, with a dipper on the rod to feed oil to the big end of the connecting rod. When under heavy load, you run the risk of starving the big end rod bearing if you lug it for too long. That big "bang" at low rpms is also causing a lot of twisting of the crank, as the inertia of the flywheel (which "stores" energy ) resists that push from the combustion stroke. I made a one piece Cushman crank into a two piece and all us old farts that bench raced the resulting teardown were pretty sure it was because I'd been lugging it at the time the crank broke. Most small engines have a optimum operational speed as part of their design - usually 3600 RPM.

BTW - Please, please, remember that we've got a lot of people looking for knowledge here - let's keep to the facts and quit shooting from the lip...

 

[aspagnolo]

Wow, much conflicting info... I think I can decifer it all though. Thanks Matt S., Matt G., and Josh O., for the advice.

A big thanks and shout out to Matt S btw, he sold me my deck cradle so i could get this baby going.

And thank you Josh O. for the compliment on my 106. It is my first tractor, first cub, my entry into THIS world...

 

[jmuncie]

I agree it shouldn't be throttled back under load or cooling becomes a major issue. However, cutting back a bit on the throttle to reduce ground speed shouldn't be a problem if you're not cutting and not pulling a heavily loaded trailer. As long as the engine isn't loaded, i.e. governor isn't opening throttle further, I run mine at a little over half throttle just driving from point to point or pulling a light trailer. I don't run it any lower than that. It would be interesting to know what cooling air flow vs. engine rpm curve looks like for these engines.

 

[jott]

<font color="000000"><font size="+1">Ryan W, Were are you?</font></font> We need your expertise for building a spreadsheet on what Jerry M has mentioned below. Im Just kidding, you dont have to, but it Would be intersting!

No problem Andy! thats what we are here for

 

[mgonitzke]

Jerry-

I've got a Kohler Magnum brochure that has such a diagram in it. The airflow drops off pretty sharply below WOT if I remember right.

 

[sstanton]

Josh Ott, I think the fronts tri-ribs are made by Deestone. They are a 4-ply and they were very, very stiff. My grandad and I put them in a shop press to hold the rim in one place, although we are both short and didnt have too good of leverage! I changed some out on the 106 last year and had a heck of a time with those ones too. Perhaps its just me!!

Andrew, my first cub was a 106, which I still have. It will be the only one I never sell, trade, or part out! It was passed on to me by my father-in-law when he passed away. Its a good tractor and other than a little dirty, it's a good piece of machinery.

 

[rpalmer]

BTW - Please, please, remember that we've got a lot of people looking for knowledge here - let's keep to the facts and quit shooting from the lip...

I strongly agree. The site is heading in a bad direction... if you like sound, technical answers.

 

[bjohnson]

Dave Ross, thanks. I'm suprised cuz I have a 129 and the gas tank and coupler are not the same. But you sure explained it. Maybe the engine is not original? Well, onto my tune up.

 

[dfrisk]

To add to what Kendell said, lugging the engine is when the engine has enough load on it at an RPM where it can't easily gain RPM, the governor has increased the throttle opening and further increases in throttle position do not increase RPM.

I'm another person who doesn't run these old Kohler's at 3600 rpm. Their torque peak is at 2200-2600 RPM if I remember the spec sheets correctly. It's engine model dependent. But I've always operated my engines above their torque peak but at less than full throttle unless I need the HP for an extended period of time. If Your cooling air screens, head & cylinder fins are clean and free of debris and it's not 90-100 degrees out You should be fine.

The engine temp of these Kohler's is more LOAD Dependent than RPM dependent, Yes, if You idle them down to 800 RPM airflow will decrease, but I believe the Operator's manual also says to IDLE the engine for a few minutes before shutting the engine off to cool it down. This pulls excess heat from the engine and cools the hottest components like the piston, rings, & exh valves. It's shutting off the engine right after a hard pull without a few moments of cool down that anneals the piston rings, warpes hot exh. valves and over-heats alum. pistons. Normal operation at an engine RPM above a medium idle at low load and faster engine speeds for greater loads up to full throttle for full rated loads should provide a relatively consistent engine temp. And there's SO MANY variables to that statement I won't even get into. Things like ambient temp & wind speed.
Mowing with anything bigger than a 7 or 8 HP tractor unless Your mowing weeds a foot tall or using way too wide a deck on a 10 or 12 hp tractor You should have plenty of HP and aren't using but half of the engine's potential at most. Guess I've developed a feel for these things in my 50 yrs of operating equipment.

As I've said here thousands of times I ran my old K241 this way for 1400 hours after a cheapie rebuild, just new rings, rod, exh. valve, gaskets & seals, and lightly honed the cylinder, knurled the piston and file-fit the piston in the cylinder. And after 1400 hrs it still was only using 2-3 oz. of oil after 5-6 hrs of operation. Guess the rings weren't in too bad of shape!

These discussions always make Me think I need to put temp gauges on my K321 sooner than later. It's a small flywheel 14 HP, cooling airflow limited. Not that I'm afraid it will "BURN UP" or melt into s puddle but to give DATA to others and end all this speculation.

 

[dfrisk]

ANDREW S. - Nice 106 & Cyclone vac. I pulled my home-made vac with my 72 for years with a K241 installed, very similar to Your 106. I found some places like under trees I had to only take half a mower swath to get all the leaves.
I also use sharp blades. You want to try to chop as much of the leaves & clippings as possible. Lets them pack into the cart better.

Like Matt G. says a hydro would work a bit better than a GD but I know your 106 can do a good job also.

MATT S. - To add to my post below, when I mow I spend a lot of time looking back to see what kind of job the mower is doing picking up the grass pushed down by the frt wheels, I also only mow when it's dry. Places where the grass is taller or more green & lush I increase mower RPM for a better cut but if Your mower won't cut properly at less than WOT maybe You need sharper blades or something.

 

[mgonitzke]

I have a cylinder temp gauge on the left side cylinder on my 582. It's not an accurate measure of the actual cylinder head temp because I had to mount the sender on the intake side of the head pretty far away from the combustion chamber, but it still works to show changes in the temperature of that area. There is a noticeable difference between full thottle and partial throttle under load. I also discovered a couple of other things; one, it takes the engine more than 5 minutes to truly warm up when it's cold out, and two, the temperature in that area of the head spikes 10-15 degrees when you idle the engine down after a hard pull. That makes me want to run it at about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle for a bit before idling it down to shut it off.

 

[dtanner]

Dennis Frisk ,Kendell Ide , Guys I never run a full t on my 129 loader as I find it a bear to handle the loader and keep the wheels for spinning. I find that half to 3/4 T is all I ever use. I think as long as the K is turning over fast enuf that you can`t hear every hit for the engine its all right to run at that rpm. The 149 I rebuilt .30 rings and rod is ready for an oil change now and I have never added oil to it. It has 30 hrs now and I will change the oil this time at 30 hrs and next 50. The Cub is used mostly for trailer duty and no mowing at all. I did plow snow with it last year but never used full t to do that. This year i will have a 1512 D
that i`am picking up on the 24th, I will enjoy that for plowing i`am sure. I don`t ever lug these small K engines down and like the tinytack to let me know what its turning.That said I do find that I have grown use to the sound that the K`s make and can tell if i`am using them right. Have a great day .Later Don T
just my .02

 

[kide]

I don't run the 129 at full throttle all of the time either, but the question was concerning a situation, mowing, that was going to load the engine. It is no different than driving a car - you don't wait to give it more gas until the engine's close to stalling. As with other questions of this type that we see on the forum, there are widely varying opinions, less real facts.

Dennis, I highly value your opinion - note that I have a lot of small engine experience, but less than yours with Cubs.. At the same time, I'll bet you don't really lug 'em down to near stalling RPM with a heavy load, either - If you do, maybe you could get by with a K-161 on all of the cubs, cause you aren't really working 'em. BTW - as I remember it, max torque and max HP don't usually coincide..

Don- the snow around here tends to be heavy and wet - if I wasn't running WOT, the load on the blade Or the QA42 WOULD stall the engine..

BTW - I knew this was gonna happen again

 

[dtanner]

Kendell Ide (Kide) well we all know that you like to stir the pot LoL. Its great when this happens I think. We all have something to read and think about I`am sure not all that look here for imformation on Cubs realy mind the info realy.I would think gater blades would be better for air flow for the leaf Vac, Just my .02.We had a big frost around here and i`am put in my shop with the wood heat going, I don`t turn on the infloor heat till November as it cost me $100.00 a month to heat the 28x30 shop. I will have to winterize the 5th wheel today , camping is finished this year, and work on the 129 also. Later Don T

 

[dtanner]

Well here is where i`am at on the 129 loader rebuild. the dash is out to have a new decal installed,I`am thinking i would have made a mess of it so I gave it to a friend in the sign business. I have to run wires for the lights and a new ground wire at the SG. Not much to do realy. here . later Don T

 

[kide]

Don - if the Gators provide more lift, it'll really help.. On my (OT) Scag, which uses high lift blades on a 10,000 RPM deck (when run at the designed, full throttle setting

), I can actually use the deck as a yard blower, (without the plastic baffle installed, of course - don't do this at home, around children or in the presence of the OSHA inspector...)

Don't mean to stir the pot, just trying to keep it real.....

P.S. - loaders looking great - I'm jealous... Guess I'll have to go play with the neighbor's JD 2355...