Archive through May 20, 2014

[mfrade]

Bill J.,

Trent P., as usual, some folks have a differing opinion. I wouldn't suggest spraying water into a running motor. Having loose particles in a running motor would do more damage imo.

I prefer to pull the head, raise the piston to the top and clean everything. Then use compressed air (or even a can of CO2) to clear the gap between piston and cylinder. Then lower the piston a bit and wipe clean any remaining debris if any.

 

[dfrisk]

MIKE F. - While you're allowed to have an incorrect opinion on decarboning of a combustion chamber if you choose, let me explain things you're not aware of.

First, water injection has been used on all different types of piston engines for over 100 years. Lots of Kerosene engines had water injection to stop detonation due to high combustion chamber temps and the use of low octane kerosene for fuel a century ago. Think it was the Germans who first used water injection in super-charged fighter plane engines to quell detonation when making low altitude full speed passes when strafing or bombing in WW II. Took the Allies several years to catch up with that idea.

One thing water injection, and even leaky head gaskets on water cooled engines all have in common... NO CARBON deposits in the combustion chamber. So all we're doing is using a spray bottle to inject water into the intake air and the rapid cooling and heating of the carbon deposits loosens them, the reciprocating motion of the piston, and the flow of the air in the combustion chamber removes them before they can get wedged between the piston & cylinder wall and do some real damage to the engine. And the carbon bits all fly out the exhaust. At half engine speed, 1800 RPM, the piston is raising and lowering in the cylinder THIRTY times a second... interia makes sure NOTHING will get trapped between the piston & cyl wall of a running engine. If you think compressed air or a can of CO2 is going to remove all the bits and chunks of carbon between the piston & cyl. wall I have a little project for you. After you get the gap all cleaned up... remove the rod cap bolts and pull and INSPECT the piston you just cleaned. You didn't get anywhere near all the debris did you!

But go ahead and waste a $20 head gasket... parts look-up above shows $17.18, you'll need some shop towels, a rotary wire brush, etc. Not a bad idea to do a new spark plug and oil change while you're there.

Ohhhh BTW... Gerry Ide read the SAME article in Hot Rod Magazine back in the 1970's that I did about water injection and also has used the water injection method to de-carb small engines. The article was about using water injection to quell detonation & pinging and PREVENT engine damage, which water injection does very nicely. On turbo-charged diesel engines in tractor pulling tractors, a typical engine, 540 CID more or less depending on class burns 1-1/2 gallons of diesel fuel making a 300+ ft pass in under 30 seconds and injects over TWO and a half gallons of water to keep from melting the pistons & exh valves.

 

[kmcconaughey]

I had a water injection setup to reduce detonation so I could run more boost on the Mercury Turbo Capri that I used to own.

 

[mfrade]

I guess you can read my mind now also?!?!?!

Too Funny! How do you know what I am aware of???

You are not the only person on the planet who has studied the IC engine! And you are entitled to your opinion the same as I!

Learn to co-exist and stop adding words that weren't said!

 

[dtanner]

Denny
I second the water method to remove carbon . heck it can be done so only a small amount of carbon is removed depending on rpm and water sprayed into the carb. It sure is cheaper that a head gasket or the spray can I saw for just that job. water in a hot combustion chamber will soften the carbon so it can be thrown out on the exhaust stroke cleaning the exhaust valve as well. I would not or I should say I have never worried using water to remove carbon . Never had an issue in any engine I had. Funny that a 5.9 cummings water injection is used to control engine temps as kraig posted with no harm to the engine . My .02

 

[hydroharry]

Bill QQ - I don't know where Do-Da got that pic cause it was taken "after" my son no longer owned the tractor and that occurred yesterday. Talk about Do-Da having sources, geez, he must have connections to that big Gov't satellite in the sky - either that or he's using drones.

Trent P - I don't often disagree with Dennis (although he thinks I do) but it sounds to me as tho you already have the head off the block. Since the head it off just follow the instructions in the Service manual. Don't use a wire brush on the piston or the head. Use either a flat piece of wood or plastic that will not score the aluminum.
Your 1450 is a great tractor. I don't know why some of the blocks had the oil dipstick tube going into the side of the block and some went in the top since all the AQS engines in these units would not have the balance gears (which is why the dip stick went in the side in the first place).

 

[dschwandt]

Head bolts on a 321....have blown 2 head gaskets in the last 2 weeks on this engine, the second one today and it ruined the head in the process.

This is a 14HP I o/h'd last fall and it was our main blade rig this past winter, always started and ran good. Resurfaced the head when rebuilt and did the torque & re-torque per the book then and again last week the 1st time it failed, and added 5# then as they seemed loose when 1st tore down. Today they were really loose and I knew before I got it off I was in big trouble.

I have another head from a 12HP. Question... are grade 8 bolts from the hardware store bin good enough or do they need to be some kind of Kohler "special" bolts??

 

[jclazar]

Hydro Harry- That is a nice 70, and cab! Nothing worst than looking at life through dirty windows,....That would kind of creep me out.

 

[sshaff]

Curious to know how many here use sediment bowl setups on your early cubs? I used them on all four of my restorations, but the one on my 100 began leaking yesterday after I finished mowing the yard (and of course, after I refilled the gas tank). I know they are still available for sale at various cub parts sources but was told they aren't considered a "standard" part anymore, at least at the particular Case IH dealership where I checked. I needed a quick fix with what they had in stock and ended up with a Cub Cadet brand shutoff valve that directly connects the gas tank to the carb fuel line and was told this is what is recommended now. Just wondering when sediment bowls started being considered obsolete? He said something about them being a fire hazard...not sure if this was the actual reason why they were phased out? Wondering about others' experiences with this...

 

[tphillips]

A little progress made today on the 1450 engine. Took it to be heli-coiled but they wont have it ready for me till tomorrow. Then I plan to bolt the head on and do a little engine degreasing.

Thanks to all for the information. If i have not mentioned before, i know only the bare bones basics of engine mechanics. Tearing into the engine is all new to me and I want to learn, patience please.

Right or wrong, I believe I will do a combination of both ideas. I do not want to put the head on until atleast the big chunks are cleaned off good as I can. When I re-assemble the engine and get it started I will do the water trick.

Most if not all may not agree with this but if there is a legit reason not to do it this way please tell me.

P.S. torque values on the head? Thanks!