Archive through May 13, 2017

[nbextermueller]

Let's see how much attention this gets over here...

My lungs can't quite take the fumes of my cubs like they used to. In fact, just a bit of exhaust fumes will usually send me into a coughing and gagging fit. So I want a new solution for my 782 (w/ Mag20) and my 2072 (also w/Mag20)

So... I have put in a few request for a small engine catalytic convertor. I am leaning towards this one.

https://www.nettinc.com/products/3-way-catalytic-converters/bluecat-small-spark-ignited-engines-emission-control-solution#

If you scroll down to the picture gallery, you will see that they already make pretty similar stuff, AND they already make stuff for current twin cylinder Kohlers and Briggs. I just need the outlet to be in the proper spot. to come out the grill.

If I need to, I am not afraid to redirect a pipe down infront of the PTO and out between the deck belts, but would rather not.

I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

Anybody else consider this route?

(Yes: I posted this twice, didn't want to get lost in the archives.)

 

[mfrade]

I'm alot like that. Sniffin' exhaust fumes isn't any fun. I've wanted to create an exhaust pipe that travels down and alongside the frame. But I figured it would just bring the exhaust fumes even closer. But I think the exhaust being lower and coming out behind the tractor may help.

I'd be curious if the cat conv. actually helps out.. I'll be watching and waiting for your results.

 

[digger]

Ford's been solving the exhaust in the face issue for more than 60 years, LOL

There's only ONE thing to do with ALL catalytic convertors, SCRAP'UM!!!

 

[mfrade]

That's the inspiration. I don't believe I'd chrome it tho'... rotflmao!

 

[mhomrighausen]

Where I work had a Cub Cadet 1720 that as used for a brief time pulling a parts cart. Charlie helped me find a company that made custom Catalytic converters. They needed to of them, one for each side at $750.00 each. A lot of people still complained of the exhaust fumes so the tractor was parked. It was soon part of a trade in on a new JD XT720 Ultimate. The company got $200.00 for the 1720 mower deck and snow thrower. The tractor didn't even have 175 hours on it.

 

[nbextermueller]

I disagree Digger,

I do get that old school and hot rod guys (including myself... although I'm only 36) don't "believe" catalytic convertors are necessary, but my lungs and the hordes of lung conditions say otherwise.

Small engines are already going EFI. It won't be long before the exhaust will be just as regulated as the air going in. I live near 3 neighbor hoods where gas powered lawn equipment aren't even allowed for both noise and air pollution reasons. In fact the Lowe's I worked at only carried the battery powered push mowers to cater to those homes.

I for one would much rather pass along my cubs to my sons with up to date equipment that has a much better possibly of NOT passing along lung cancer with them.

I figured I would order the cat muffler with an O2 sensor bung just encase I want to switch to EFI in the coming years... But If that was the case I may just switch to a modern EFI engine all together.

 

[kmcconaughey]

While it wouldn't work with the front PTO here's a custom under chassis exhaust (no Cat. Converter though) that Doug (Darrell) Barnett out on his 122 loader tractor.

 

[nbextermueller]

I have considered that route. But with the electric PTO and Deck being on nearly 100% of the time, I'm worried about heat under there.

So today I got to talk to an engineer with the company I posted below , Nett Inc.

He is willing to go one of 2 routes. I could send him one of my spare mufflers and they could reproduce one with the internals for around $650
OR
Better yet, they are willing to take apart my muffler and put their stuff in it for around $500 (shipping included) so that there would be no issues with fit up.

The price goes down obviously with the number being made.
SOOOO.... I have a question. I would have 2 made, is there anybody else interested in having this conversion done?

Charlie

can I plead with you? you made your thoughts on cats clear below... But this may be an outlet to reach a new customer base! Would you be interested in ordering maybe 2-3 or so?

I'm going to post this over in the CCC forum too. cause it is going on my CCC 2072 and CCC sourced Mag 20 on the 782.

 

[jdiederichs]

It would seem quite an accomplishment to clean up a Magnum twin. The newer OHV engines have a much cleaner exhaust already, and the Kohler EFI twins, using the Denso EFI system, are a fully contained package; you just bolt it in and go like a normal Command. Using closed loop design, the emissions and especially the fumes are almost nonexistent.
You would really need a closed loop system to maximize the benefits, sensing the o2 content and adjusting fuel delivery to near perfect. You just cannot achieve that with a carb'd engine.

Back when I worked R&D at Tecumseh Engines, we did many tests using various catalysts on production push mower engines. Ordered muffler canisters and install several cat types inside, all that. Results were not real effective, unfortunately. While it did result in a marginally cleaner exhaust, it was not the improvement that we had hoped for.

You could also check out CA spec engines, some of them use secondary air to clean up unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust, sort of like an early 70's GM auto engines had

 

[jdiederichs]

Nic, we need to find to an Elec-Trak by GE around, or an old Gravely with the engine behind the driver, lol

 

[digger]

My issue with the converter is, what's it going to do to the exhaust flow?
How much of a restriction would there be, and how much power loss is going to be involved?

Then the next thing would be.
What about the guys out there that won't use non-oxygenated fuel and blow-by from the engine plugs the converter up after a summers use?

To many variables to contend with before we can convince people that this is a GREAT idea.

 

[mgonitzke]

If I already had a Command or more modern engine in my 782 I might be interested (if economies of scale lower the price point enough), but having just changed a cylinder on my M18 and having a hard time finding parts, the next time this engine has a serious enough problem it's getting replaced.

The fumes with mine are better now that it runs on both cylinders and isn't dumping raw gas into the muffler anymore

 

[nbextermueller]

Got a pretty amazing quote back from Nett Inc.

The size of my Kohler Magnum @ 47ci only requires one of their cores. Because they are going to fit it into my muffler, there is $110 discount on the material and fab.

The final number is $281 and they are paying all the shipping! Considering a brand new OEM muffler on a sponsor website is $110. It's actually a lot more cost effective than I thought.

I was guessing around $500-600 each.

Soooo... I'm getting 2 mufflers done. Hopefully it will further quiet my Cubs and reduce the bad stuff up to %80-%95.

Charlie, I'll be sure to keep everybody posted on the tolerance of the blow-by of an engine with 1200hr on it! On second thought, I should probably get new valve cover vent/valves things...

 

[mgwin]

Nic,

I used a thin wall conduit pipe along with a rain cap to get the exhaust just above my head.

 

[nbextermueller]

The problem with the '82 series I love is that the exhaust comes out the front. Not the side. So getting anything out of the engine bay requires going down in front of the PTO and between the mower belts.

I have already used the chrome sink pipe trick to aim it down at the ground and extend it about 10". But it's still untreated pure gasoline exhaust. that I drive through for over 2hrs every time I mow.

And it's twice as much or more than a typical Cub Kohler cause I'm running 20HP twins on both mowers. Lots of exhaust. My 128 doesn't create this problem. It doesn't burn much gas. I run through almost 3 gallons of gas to mow 2acres every week or so.

Maybe I should just run them on alcohol!! More torque, it would run cooler, not bad fumes! infact I can make it smell like cherries or cotton candy if I want. I would just need to fill up during mowing cause alcohol uses almost twice as much to run right and I'd have to change the oil after every use...

 

[mgwin]

Nic,

If you love to mow with a cub cadet, that is fine.
I mow about 2 acres myself, but not with a cub.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE those cub cadets, but I care nothing about using them to mow with.
If I was bored with nothing to do, I might consider mowing with one.

If you are like me, and want to hurry up and get done, get yourself a good zero turn.
I have a SCAG commercial mower and love to mow with it, because it is super fast and very maneuverable. I could/have mown with one hand!

Just my 2 cents.

Like I said, if you like mowing with a cub that's terrific, but a zero is much much faster.

 

[nbextermueller]

Marty,

I appreciate the opinion. But mowing with my Cubs IS what I like to do. I wouldn't own them just to putt around in parades or park them in a garage to watch them sit. To me, I own these cubs to use them for what they were intended for.
1. Mowing lots and lots of grass
2. Pulling a trailer when I have yard work to finish.
3. Using my cubs for any other reason I can find that will give me more seat time...

I am absolutely not concerned with speed. I have a small business that is successful enough to be awesome, but makes life ultra busy. I have a wife and 4 kids under 8yrs, which means date nights and more kid events than I care to be at.

My time sitting on my cubs is My time.

I would like it to be pleasant.

Even if I decided to spend $8,000 on a good ZT to be done marginally faster on a zero turn (keep in mind I use a 2072 with a 60" deck), the emissions are still the same even if the engine is behind me.

 

[nbextermueller]

Also,

Thanks to Charlie, I have given thought to the proposition that the 1200hrs on the Magnum means it burns too much oil and may kill the CAT faster than expected. The engine doesn't smoke, but does pull a fair amount of oil from the valve breather into the intake charge. I don't want to just vent that to the atmosphere because I would lose what little vacuum that creates in the crankcase and push more oil past the rings.

So... I will also be employing on of these.

A PCV air/oil separator I should fit nicely right on the firewall on the "driver side"
It's only 3" dia and 4" tall. I will double check the space, and they do make a smaller one, but without the handy drain I will likely need to use often.

So the spare muffler is packed up and ready to ship. They will be cutting the ends off, re-baffling the inside, inserting the catalytic core, welding it all back up, sanding, painting, branding and giving it a serial and part number for warranty purposes.

Yes this will have a warranty...

 

[mgwin]

Nic,

I agree with you on the seat time on a cub, nothing like it!

I am not familiar with the later models of cub cadets, I'm stuck on the narrow frames.

Do you have any pics of your 2072 with that monster deck?

As for seat time on a cub, this is my favorite thing to do:

 

[wcompton]

So I blew out the charge pump in the 2072 and what was left of the gear rotor welded itself to the top shaft.

So we're getting creative. Real creative. As in "jacking up the hood ornament and inserting new".

Gone will be the original engine, driveline, rag joints (replaced with a Lord p/n LCR-300-600-046A joint, good for 80+ horsepower). The hydro will be updated. I won't be able to use plain 87 octane as before. I'll still do work with it daily.

So far only one part will be custom, every other part will be off-the-shelf.

The Wheatland's big brother is getting reborn!