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Archive through May 06, 2004

IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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Art-
I haven't cut my lawn yet either, still trying to find a Cub Cadet push mower, lots of leads, but nothing solid enough to find it's way home to cut lawn.

Denny-
I know which ones you're talking about, my Cougar had two broke off, two removed, just to fake it, I JB-Weld'd two screw heads onto the plate, heck Velcro would have been more than enough to hold THAT on.
 
At the end of my rope here. I'm trying to get my 100 going after purchasing a new S/G, regulator, and wiring harness. I hooked everything up like my wiring diagram states, but the regulator is giving me problems. Yellow wire to field (F) term. Gray wire to Battery (Bat). Blue wire to Gen (L). However the L terminal is always hot(so I can't hook it up). I did a keyword search on the archives and checked the FAQs and have found no help here.

I did the exact same wiring on my old 70 about 7 years ago and it seems like I had some sort of alternate wiring diagram back then that helped me figure it out. Wish I could find it now.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
 
Don D.: The BAT wire dosen't go to the L it goes on the BAT terminal. That terminal is for load or lights. You then have a F for Field & A for Armature.
 
Bryan -- if you've had to work and couldn't cut the grass , WHY is she just now cutting it when she could have done it a week ago ¿

Geezer -- it had a full time charge going
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Scott -- High carbon steel cost to much ! $72 four years ago. I still toy with the idea though.

Nice guy ¿

... and Bryan's POOFer must be broke today !
 
Thanks for the link, I just wish there was a photo of what the current tread pattern looked like. I tried a search with no luck, I'll try again later.

Man I shouldn't power washed the 149.
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All that grime was hidding and holding together a lot. Oh well, more parts to order.....

Travis, turn down your filter, there are a few messages coming your way...
 
Thanks guys! My problem is solved.

I appreciate the diagram Digger, but it didn't solve my problem.

The problem turned out to be an unmarked terminal on the back of the regulator. I assumed it was a ground since there was no marked ground terminal, but it was actually a "hide-a-way" GEN terminal. So now there is nothing on the L terminal and the lights burn bright because crusty lives again (much to the chagrin of my neighbors!) It works great.

Now to get the mower deck working........
 
I'm stumped. On my 149 PTO one of the three Throw-Out Levers keeps slipping off the Thrust Button when I try to disengage the PTO. I've replaced the Pressure Springs, Friction Disc, Thrust Buttons and adjusted the three machine screws/compression springs with the gauge per kit instruction. Yet a lever keeps slipping off the thrust button. I'm also using a bronze wear button. Any ideas why this is happening? Could the levers need replacing (they don't show wear in my opinion)?

Thanks,
Roy
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Roy -- sounds like wear or mis-alignment. I'd say paint that one and try it again to see if it's the same one everytime but that's a lot of work.

Don -- look at that backside connection and see if it is riveted to the regulator frame , all I've seen ARE grounds.
 
Interesting week and a half. First the 'ol computer took a dive, and I replaced it with a new one. Two days later I got the "Sasser" worm. SON-OF-A-B---- anyhow!!!8-(. Gave the boss my notice of leaving and sat home on a couple of sunny 70 degree days. SOB again.

Started the new job and have to run a Dear John. Actually the JD 650H is a real nice machine. Kinda' hard to take the air conditioning and the stearo radio.

Welll as you can tell the computer is now fixed and ready for the next ahhhh......... what ever.
 
Roy,

Try using the PTO rebuild kit with the single spring and bent down ends (ears) off of an earlier machine (100,122,125,etc.)

The spring tabs will keep the button in the center and prevent the spring "squirm" of the flat spring from pitching the levers out.

My 169 was instantly cured of the same problem when I switched springs on the advice of another forum member who had BTDT.
 
Hey Kraig- nice 'first' Cub Cadet... a smooth lookin' chassis, with just subtile shape, but her tires are slightly bland, and she's got no headlights... ah, how times change... most all models have big headlights nowdays.

(Message edited by dkamp on May 06, 2004)
 
Bad vibes from 149 ... A while back I rebuilt the motor on my 149 putting the balance gears back in not knowing they do not bode well to fellow forum members .This I found out after I posted that I was having a vibration problem After 4 replys stating to take them out , I did just that. Well, I took them out and it does seem to be a small improvment in the ammount of viberation , but not the ammount of improvement that I was looking for. ,, Going back to when I first took this engine apart I took notice of the position of the balance gears ... When the crankshaft counterweights were in the 6:00 position , the balance gear counterweights were in the 12:00 position ,180 degrees aprt so to speak . When I reassembled the engine I got the service manual and the little plastic tool that is supposed to align them properly . After doing this I noticed that the balance gear counterweights and the crank counterweights were both in the 6:00 position . I was not to concerned about this because I figure the engine may have been worked on before ... ............... Now, before I worked on this engine , the viberations could have been lived with ,but putting them in where the service manual recomended or putting them in the trash can is getting hard to live with having to mow a rather large lawn . I hate to take this engine apart and try putting the gears back where they were before I took the engine apart . Someone else to me that Koehler had two different postions for these gears and it could be possible that this engine was never down. ..... If anyone can shed some light on this it would be greatly appreciated Thanks , Wayne ([email protected])
 
Hey Everybody!

Thanks for the suggestions on coil/condenser... I've got two spares to try, condition unknown, but still 'different'. Not sure why I'd get recoverable and 'predictable' results from a failing coil. I've seen strange things in my time, but only one was stranger than this.

I DID check the tank and fuel line... I haven't seen any flow-rate suggestions, but if I fill the tank, and unhook the hose from the carb, it'll fill a quart catch-jar in around 20 seconds. I can't imagine a K241 having more fuel demand than that... (my 22' boat might use that much fuel at WOT, but I don't think I've got any OTHER piece of machinery that thirsty... the 17 runabout uses 12gph [0.2gpm] at 60mph, and I don't think the K241 is quite in the 200+hp range)

I'll try the MMO trick, too...

I checked valve lash this afternoon, found the intake was a tad on the tight side, exhaust was dead-center with the spec'd window.

Nice duals, Bryan- Do you use that configuration to move snow, dirt, or just show? If work, how well does the blade work with tires hangin' outside the cutting-swath? my guess is that it either works a whole lot worse (loose material foiling traction) or a whole lot better (tires outside the cutting path getting better grip)... ??
 
Wayne -- there's 5 or 6 pdf pages in the manual, I'll screen capture them and email them to ya ... there's an "old" and "new" style. You could get the pdf file yourself from Kohler but it's over 14meg so I'll save ya some time.
 
Hi Wayne! On the topic of balance gears, I've just looked at the array of procedures in the K-series manual, and can understand your confusion and frustration.

Perhaps a little explanation on balance-gear concepts will clear some of the fog. In a common reciprocating engine, there are two general 'planes' of motion that need to be suppressed to cut down vibration.

First of all, you have a piston and rod, which is moving up and down in the cylinder. This obviously must be counteracted by SOMETHING in order to supress vibration.

If you spin the crankshaft, with no reciprocating assembly attached, you MAY find (Depending on the engine design) that the crank is balanced by itself... the counterweights counteract the mass of the swinging crank. More often, you'll find that the crank's counterweights are slightly HEAVIER than the throws, because designers have taken into account a certain amount of mass of the attached connecting-rod. Sometimes they even add a little more counterweight mass, to counteract the piston swinging back-and forth. Well-and-good, but...

The piston is just going up-and-down, while the crankshaft counterweights are going in a CIRCLE.

The fact that the piston's reciprocating mass is being worked-against by counterweights that are SPINNING, means that the vertical plane vibrations are being suppressed (in sinusoidal fashion), but the throw's counterweights are shaking the engine side-to-side... SO... it's a matter of evils.

To complicate things even worse, the rod's mass is swinging side-to-side, but also in sinusoidal fashion (it's moving up and down while swinging), but it becomes a rather complicated sum of vectors. To make matters worse, the engine's not shaking in just one plane, it's shaking in an irregular circle, while counterweights are 'trying' to shake it in an opposite, but unequal irregular circle.

So they make these little weights that spin in the exact-opposite direction as the crank, and they contain precision 'weights' which are supposed to be timed in such a fashion as to counteract the worst vibrations by equalling them, but being 180 degrees in the opposite direction... aka., thrust in one vector is being met with equal thrust on an opposite vector.

They had to PICK which vibration to fight, though... and the match of piston, rod, crank, balance gear, and timing were all part of the solution mathematics.

So in engines with balance-weights, it's not unusual to see the weights timed to match the crank throw (up when up, down when down)... just keep in mind that they'll be swinging in the opposite direction. I'm not suprised to see 'em in the 90-degrees out-of-phase orientation... again, they're swinging the opposite way... all depends on the other componentry.

As you can tell by the responses of the bunch... the preferred least-of-all-evils is to remove the weights, and live with a slight buzz from your neck down. I've got a K321 here with an inspection window blasted through the block where the advance weights took their leave of absence... apparently the sum of two equal but opposite vectors exceeded the abilities of the casting which they were employed. I did have a Kawasaki vertical-twin motorcycle with TWO chain-driven counterbalancing shafts... I'll have to admit... they didn't seem to do much good- my feet and hands would buzz for a good long time after just about ANY ride over 10 miles... but in their honor, at least I wasn't taking out the tool kit and tightening down every fastener like the BSA, Triumph and Norton riders did...
 
I just got a Cadet 73 that wants to bog the engine way down when I engage the blades, I have checked all the pulleys on the deck and the idlers and all are moving freely. the engine rpm's seem to be fine when the blades aren't engaged but when I move the lever to engage it is like there is big drag on the motor. I'm at a loss since every thing is spinning freely. Does anyone have any ideas?
 
Chuck -- your points may need regaped as my 127 did the same thing with the points at a .003" gap. Some how they moved or something wore letting them get close.


Dave -- reading yer ....... post on B-gears got me to thinking (shame on you for making me do that!) how would it be to add or replace the B-gears with an automotive style dampner ?? Even one 'o them fancy fluid dampners ??
 
Wayne-
There was an evolution of the Kohlers, balance gears included. Some engines got them, some engines didn't, just depended on what the OEM wanted. Kohler did have an early and late balance system, which you may have seen both now. I have seen a Kohler print for the crankshaft that lists the crank to be blalaced to a 50% factor which isn't bad alone for a small engine, I suspect better than many.

Bottom line of the balance gears is most toss them out, BUT if you're going to resuse them it's OK to do so IF you put new bearings and shafts in for them, better if it's the later style with longer stub shafts. A good Kohler dealer will have the service bulletin on this and the differnce between the early and late systems.
 
Ken, I did install an older lever (the yellow one) from a PTO rebuild from several years ago, and left the two newer levers. The old lever stayed in place. Perhaps I should install all the old levers and see what happens before trying anything else.

Steve, the spring did shift and I didn't notice it until now. Can you send a photo of your 169 PTO as I am not familiar with the earlier CC's and how you bent the spring ends? Another possible solution: What if took the lower spring (of the two pressure springs) and clipped the three ends so they rest on the inner pulley ledge (at point of letter opener)? I would use the uppermost spring as-is. With the lower spring fixed in place, and can't squirm/shift on the pulley edge, this should keep the levers engaged in the Thrust Button groove. Sound right?

Thanks,
Roy

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