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Archive through March 27, 2014
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hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Steve - I'm not familiar with the CCC 1204 or 1210 that Jeff mentioned. What ever engine you have looks very similar to the Kohler K series "AQS" style, meaning a K301AQS (12hp) used in an IH Cub Cadet Model 1200 or 1250. It would have a sorta egg shaped air cleaner connected with a rubber tube into that hole you have in the flywheel shroud. It would have the integrated style starter, flywheel with ring gear. I can't see what you have for a muffler or a PTO on your 149. The K301AQS would have a muffler box on the front with an exhaust pipe thru the front grill of the tractor. It would also have an electric PTO squeezed underneath and just behind the main part of the muffler box. Your 149 would have originally had a manual engaged PTO on the front, and a bullet style muffler above it which would exhaust out the right side of the tractor. I'm curious to see what they did with your engine for a muffler and PTO. One thing I see that bothers me, is a bolt used as a pin to connect the driveshaft to the cup on the flywheel. That is usually considered a No-No (only a temporary fix).
Oh, and as far as whether your engine is a good thing - that's hard to say. It's not close to original, complicates repairs as far as determining what parts are correct, but it's certainly better than a non-working engine - and if it does what you want, well that's what you need.
Oh, and as far as whether your engine is a good thing - that's hard to say. It's not close to original, complicates repairs as far as determining what parts are correct, but it's certainly better than a non-working engine - and if it does what you want, well that's what you need.
jbaker
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Steve not bad,
but first about your IH149, great tractor some say the best. The 149 originaly had a Kohler single cylinder K301 engine that was 12hp and solid mounted and hooked to hydrostatic trans with hydraulic lift.
Now briefly about what I think you have in there if I am correct it is the Kohler M12AQS that came in the CCC1204,10,11 models and is also solid mounted. It was a couple of generations newer. But then again I may be barking up the wrong tree.
either way if we want to go to far with this subject will need to move it to the CCC/MTD area
but first about your IH149, great tractor some say the best. The 149 originaly had a Kohler single cylinder K301 engine that was 12hp and solid mounted and hooked to hydrostatic trans with hydraulic lift.
Now briefly about what I think you have in there if I am correct it is the Kohler M12AQS that came in the CCC1204,10,11 models and is also solid mounted. It was a couple of generations newer. But then again I may be barking up the wrong tree.
either way if we want to go to far with this subject will need to move it to the CCC/MTD area
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- Binder 1650
Steve N. - nice 149. To add to what Harry B mentioned, if it is a Magnum, there will be no points, etc. I believe the Magnum is a magneto type engine. They're blocks on the single cylinder models like you've got are cast iron. I've heard some have balance gears and others say they don't. I've never been into one for a look-see.
Do you have a PTO on the front or even enough crank to add one? The plastic screen on the flywheel was used on the Magnums I have, so that is another sign you have a Magnum.
Bottom line - if the engine fits up and gets'er done, IMHO, the Magnum is a great engine.
Speaking of fit-up, can you post some pics of the oil pan / engine to frame fit-up?
Don't know if they ever made an AQS version of the Magnum engines, but I think CCC might have relied on an engine cradle arrangement in the 1204 and 1210 with isolators? BTW - the flywheel cover on my M14 Magnums don't have the hole in them as you show covered with tape.
Doug B - IMPRESSIVE!!!!!
Joel G - I kind of like those thick metal parts on the IHCC's too...
Do you have a PTO on the front or even enough crank to add one? The plastic screen on the flywheel was used on the Magnums I have, so that is another sign you have a Magnum.
Bottom line - if the engine fits up and gets'er done, IMHO, the Magnum is a great engine.
Speaking of fit-up, can you post some pics of the oil pan / engine to frame fit-up?
Don't know if they ever made an AQS version of the Magnum engines, but I think CCC might have relied on an engine cradle arrangement in the 1204 and 1210 with isolators? BTW - the flywheel cover on my M14 Magnums don't have the hole in them as you show covered with tape.
Doug B - IMPRESSIVE!!!!!
Joel G - I kind of like those thick metal parts on the IHCC's too...
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Mag ignition requires different ignition switch (grounding type). Do not put 12v to ground wire of mag.....its a $70 mistake and requires pulling the blower shroud.
Search 782 mag 18 wiring conversion for details.
Search 782 mag 18 wiring conversion for details.
It has no PTO. Looks as if there is room and enough shaft, but I will probably not add one.
Magnum or not, it will get-er done, till it breaks!
Glad it has the geared starter, and maybe no breaker points.
It will probably, gradually, get a few "improvements", and maybe never get new paint. just work it like the mules I grew up with in the hill country of KY.
Thanks, for the information,
Magnum or not, it will get-er done, till it breaks!
Glad it has the geared starter, and maybe no breaker points.
It will probably, gradually, get a few "improvements", and maybe never get new paint. just work it like the mules I grew up with in the hill country of KY.
Thanks, for the information,
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Bill J.
I have to agree with Denny.....You can mix and match parts 100 to 782....and I have a late 90's deck under a 1984 782. IH not only used parts from the other Cub Cadets, but also from the ag tractor and OTR truck lines........LOTS of interchangeability!!!!
I have to agree with Denny.....You can mix and match parts 100 to 782....and I have a late 90's deck under a 1984 782. IH not only used parts from the other Cub Cadets, but also from the ag tractor and OTR truck lines........LOTS of interchangeability!!!!
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- Binder 1650
Steve B - I don't know.... Don't want to get smashed, but here's what I've observed so far in my Cub Cadet Journey...
122 parts tractor. Engine fit fine in the 126 and probably would on the 109. Not such a good fit in the 1650 or an 82 series.
Tranny from the 122, internal brakes, not sure if it's a direct swap into the 126 or 109 or my early 1650 all with external brakes. Don't know if it's a direct swap into a later QL or 82 series with internal brakes.
The 3 pt hitch from the 122 I gather will fit the 126, not sure it would fit the 109/1650, or the reverse.
Don't have a creeper, but aren't the handles to them somewhat different depending in which tractor series you have?
Found out last summer that the back spacing on the NF front wheels is different than the WF front wheels.
Got an electric hitch complete off the 1250 parts tractor, I think it will fit the 109, not sure about the 126.
Don't know anything about tillers or blowers, but aren't some of those tractor series specific?
Front blades don't appear to be, don't think the one off the 122 will fit either the 126, 109 or 1650 and the one on the 1650 doesn't fit the 126.
Not sure I could drop a twin cylinder engine from an 82 series in my 1650.
Pin on deck from my 122 gathering dust because I don't think it it will pin on my 126, 109 or 1650.
And what what got me talking about this was the WF deck fitting the NF tractors. Also got a 50c deck, but need to swap out the center drive pulley to use on my 1650 to take the narrower width belt. Already done this with a 44c deck that I've got on my 109.
Are there common parts - sure, could IH done a better job making some of the above items form fit and functional swaps between series tractors, IMHO - yes. Does it make the IHCC's bad tractors - of course not.
Again, not trying to irritate anyone or get myself flamed.
Thanks again for everyone's comments!!!!!
122 parts tractor. Engine fit fine in the 126 and probably would on the 109. Not such a good fit in the 1650 or an 82 series.
Tranny from the 122, internal brakes, not sure if it's a direct swap into the 126 or 109 or my early 1650 all with external brakes. Don't know if it's a direct swap into a later QL or 82 series with internal brakes.
The 3 pt hitch from the 122 I gather will fit the 126, not sure it would fit the 109/1650, or the reverse.
Don't have a creeper, but aren't the handles to them somewhat different depending in which tractor series you have?
Found out last summer that the back spacing on the NF front wheels is different than the WF front wheels.
Got an electric hitch complete off the 1250 parts tractor, I think it will fit the 109, not sure about the 126.
Don't know anything about tillers or blowers, but aren't some of those tractor series specific?
Front blades don't appear to be, don't think the one off the 122 will fit either the 126, 109 or 1650 and the one on the 1650 doesn't fit the 126.
Not sure I could drop a twin cylinder engine from an 82 series in my 1650.
Pin on deck from my 122 gathering dust because I don't think it it will pin on my 126, 109 or 1650.
And what what got me talking about this was the WF deck fitting the NF tractors. Also got a 50c deck, but need to swap out the center drive pulley to use on my 1650 to take the narrower width belt. Already done this with a 44c deck that I've got on my 109.
Are there common parts - sure, could IH done a better job making some of the above items form fit and functional swaps between series tractors, IMHO - yes. Does it make the IHCC's bad tractors - of course not.
Again, not trying to irritate anyone or get myself flamed.
Thanks again for everyone's comments!!!!!
I for one find it hard sometimes to find what will fit what Cub. For those that have years experience with these fine garden tractors I` am sure it is a snap to move decks and throwers and ect around from one to the other. This is why I own more than I have decks and tools for . plow , tiller, snow blower , snow thrower have there own tractor. Simple !
Bill = your not alone .
Bill = your not alone .
hydroharry
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Jeff Baker and Steve Noel - Now I'm certain Jeff knows better but a 149 would not have a 12hp K301 engine. It was originally equiped with a 14hp K321A. That's why it has the 14 in the model number 149. (A 129 would have a 12hp and Jeff knows that too).
Bill QQ - are you certain the Kohler Magnum block is cast iron. I had understood it was aluminum. I also understood they looked the same as the K series blocks but all the internals were different. Never heard they had balance gears. If Kohler did away with balance gears on the last of the K series I wonder why they would go back to them on the Magnum especially if the internal parts were all re-designed.
Bill QQ - are you certain the Kohler Magnum block is cast iron. I had understood it was aluminum. I also understood they looked the same as the K series blocks but all the internals were different. Never heard they had balance gears. If Kohler did away with balance gears on the last of the K series I wonder why they would go back to them on the Magnum especially if the internal parts were all re-designed.
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- Binder 1650
Harry B - the single cylinder Magnums are definitely cast iron. My back can testify to this.
My understanding of the Magnum is it is essentially a K series engine with some upgrades. Solid state ignition, Mahle pistons, bendix vs S/G starter. I believe they also have satellite valves.
Back in '97-'98 time frame I bought a Wheelhorse tractor new. It was the last model they made with a cast iron engine in it and of course their cast iron tranny. I consider it the last of the old iron tractors. It has a Magnum M14. Around that same time, I bought a Troybilt tiller new with the Magnum M8. For a hack mechanic like myself, I consider the Magnum engines to be superior to the K-series.
What spurred me to make these purchases, besides just needing them was the EPA mandates that I feel helped lead to the demise of the Magnum engines. I was glad to get these machines when I could and use to see direct replacements littered on the shelves of Northern Tool and kick myself for not picking up a spare engine or two when they were available.
Here are a few links on the Magnums:
http://deadsledpulling.weebly.com/engine-rebuilding-1.html
http://www.hancox.co.uk/kohlermagnumsingle.html
It would be great to know for sure if one could drop-in a CCC magnum into an IHCC.
IHCC content: Warming-up in my neck of the woods, looking at using the 126 while I've got it at the house to pull my plug aerator. Don't know if anyone ever uses these, but rather than rely on the hole in the draw-bar tab on the back of the tractor, I use a 1-7/8 ball hitch with a 1/2 inch shank. I think I got these from Northern Tool years ago. I also fit my aerator with a 1-7/8 hitch so I can hook it to the ball.
Around here, there are lots of hills, dips and ditches and the normal clevis on a pull behind implement can bind on the draw bar tab vs pulling on flat ground. I have done the same for pulling trailers too. Works GREAT!!!!
My understanding of the Magnum is it is essentially a K series engine with some upgrades. Solid state ignition, Mahle pistons, bendix vs S/G starter. I believe they also have satellite valves.
Back in '97-'98 time frame I bought a Wheelhorse tractor new. It was the last model they made with a cast iron engine in it and of course their cast iron tranny. I consider it the last of the old iron tractors. It has a Magnum M14. Around that same time, I bought a Troybilt tiller new with the Magnum M8. For a hack mechanic like myself, I consider the Magnum engines to be superior to the K-series.
What spurred me to make these purchases, besides just needing them was the EPA mandates that I feel helped lead to the demise of the Magnum engines. I was glad to get these machines when I could and use to see direct replacements littered on the shelves of Northern Tool and kick myself for not picking up a spare engine or two when they were available.
Here are a few links on the Magnums:
http://deadsledpulling.weebly.com/engine-rebuilding-1.html
http://www.hancox.co.uk/kohlermagnumsingle.html
It would be great to know for sure if one could drop-in a CCC magnum into an IHCC.
IHCC content: Warming-up in my neck of the woods, looking at using the 126 while I've got it at the house to pull my plug aerator. Don't know if anyone ever uses these, but rather than rely on the hole in the draw-bar tab on the back of the tractor, I use a 1-7/8 ball hitch with a 1/2 inch shank. I think I got these from Northern Tool years ago. I also fit my aerator with a 1-7/8 hitch so I can hook it to the ball.
Around here, there are lots of hills, dips and ditches and the normal clevis on a pull behind implement can bind on the draw bar tab vs pulling on flat ground. I have done the same for pulling trailers too. Works GREAT!!!!
Bill J to use a 44A deck on a NF tractor you use a mule drive with pulleys turned, angled toward the offset center deck pulley. You use the deck hanger that is arched or I call it the humpback design. I works really well.
JEFF B. - I think you meant to say a 149 had a K321 14 HP engine.
STEVE N. - My Dad bought a M12 Kohler Magnum from a smalll engine supplier to put in a 129 that was his dedicated rototiller tractor about 15 years ago. He paid about what I spent on parts & machining to rebuild a K241 a year ago for the complete brand new Magnum in a box shipped to his doorstep. Installation was not a drop-in, first thing needing attention was the 1-1/8" dia. crankshaft needed ground to 1.000" dia and a new keyway milled, think He ended up using a stock 129 starter/generator, basket pulley, and frt manual PTO clutch, etc. etc. etc. Was a great running engine.
The Magnum series Kohler's have a LOT of heavy-duty parts the garden tractor pullers use in them, Yep, nothing like a new engine to improve performance & duribility.
STEVE N. - My Dad bought a M12 Kohler Magnum from a smalll engine supplier to put in a 129 that was his dedicated rototiller tractor about 15 years ago. He paid about what I spent on parts & machining to rebuild a K241 a year ago for the complete brand new Magnum in a box shipped to his doorstep. Installation was not a drop-in, first thing needing attention was the 1-1/8" dia. crankshaft needed ground to 1.000" dia and a new keyway milled, think He ended up using a stock 129 starter/generator, basket pulley, and frt manual PTO clutch, etc. etc. etc. Was a great running engine.
The Magnum series Kohler's have a LOT of heavy-duty parts the garden tractor pullers use in them, Yep, nothing like a new engine to improve performance & duribility.
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- Binder 1650
Luther H - thanks for the info and pic. Kind of wish you hadn't shown the grass/leaf vacuum. You got my wheels turning and that can't be good with Momma's ban on more garden tractor stuff...
I have a 1450 I picked up in January. It came with a #2 tiller. It was a basket case when I got it and I am getting it ready to work. My wife wants a garden and I want that tiller ready to work.
The tractor has a mule drive and lift for the 44" mower deck that came with the package. Can I use this mule drive with the tiller? If not can it be modified for use with the tiller. I do have the 90° gear box. I don't want to tear up the long, expensive belt.
Bob
The tractor has a mule drive and lift for the 44" mower deck that came with the package. Can I use this mule drive with the tiller? If not can it be modified for use with the tiller. I do have the 90° gear box. I don't want to tear up the long, expensive belt.
Bob
Bill,
I tried to get pics of oil pan/mount area. Didn't get much. Some one asked about the muffler. And from the IH service manual, the CC 1200 and 1250 used the K301, 12 hp, with geared starter and funny shaped air cleaner. So with the attached pics, I think we better halt further discussion here about my "mule", since it's a hybrid, lest we all get our computer cords cut!
I tried to get pics of oil pan/mount area. Didn't get much. Some one asked about the muffler. And from the IH service manual, the CC 1200 and 1250 used the K301, 12 hp, with geared starter and funny shaped air cleaner. So with the attached pics, I think we better halt further discussion here about my "mule", since it's a hybrid, lest we all get our computer cords cut!
hydroharry
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Bob Elliott - I didn't see anyone respond to your question yet. The mule drive for your 44 mowing deck will have angled pulleys on it which direct the belt to the offset center pulley on the 44 deck. You'd have to get several small parts to modify the mule drive so the pulleys run parallel to the tractor frame itself. Probably easier to just find a used WF mule drive with the straight pulleys. The pulleys themselves recommended for the mule drive used with a tiller are beefier style (more costly) but I've known people to use the standard pulleys (used for mowing decks).
By the way, 1450 with a tiller makes a nice package. Make sure you 1450 brakes work good so you can hold that tiller back or it will push you right along.
Jeff - now, now, now - so it was a typo huh? The K301 was suppose to be K321? What about the 12hp? Was that a slip of the thumb? Was that supposed to be 14hp minus 2hp reduction for hydro equals 12hp?
Steve N - I see no need to stop the discussion of your 149 mule. Your tractor has a tag on the side of the frame that says International Harvester, Chicago, IL. That name and the appropriate Kind Code number identifying it as a Cub Cadet makes it open for discussion on this board.
I see couple things in your pics I'm wondering about.
You seem to have the original style air cleaner used on the Kohler K engine originally for your 149. I'm wondering why they changed that and then used duct tape on the hole in the flywheel shroud.
In one of your pics taken from underneath the tractor I think I see what appears to be a stress crack in the frame. Did you see or notice this?
Bill QQ - you said "Momma's ban on more garden tractor stuff...". Key word is "stuff". Get some more tractors!!!!!!! But no more stuff. Then when she says No More Garden Tractors - you can get some more "stuff".
By the way, 1450 with a tiller makes a nice package. Make sure you 1450 brakes work good so you can hold that tiller back or it will push you right along.
Jeff - now, now, now - so it was a typo huh? The K301 was suppose to be K321? What about the 12hp? Was that a slip of the thumb? Was that supposed to be 14hp minus 2hp reduction for hydro equals 12hp?
Steve N - I see no need to stop the discussion of your 149 mule. Your tractor has a tag on the side of the frame that says International Harvester, Chicago, IL. That name and the appropriate Kind Code number identifying it as a Cub Cadet makes it open for discussion on this board.
I see couple things in your pics I'm wondering about.
You seem to have the original style air cleaner used on the Kohler K engine originally for your 149. I'm wondering why they changed that and then used duct tape on the hole in the flywheel shroud.
In one of your pics taken from underneath the tractor I think I see what appears to be a stress crack in the frame. Did you see or notice this?
Bill QQ - you said "Momma's ban on more garden tractor stuff...". Key word is "stuff". Get some more tractors!!!!!!! But no more stuff. Then when she says No More Garden Tractors - you can get some more "stuff".
Harry,
I put the tape on the hole, as a temporary patch, until I get the correct air filter box. No, I haven't done a complete inspection yet, so haven't noticed a stress crack. I will work on this and that, little by little. No heavy work for it for a while.
I put the tape on the hole, as a temporary patch, until I get the correct air filter box. No, I haven't done a complete inspection yet, so haven't noticed a stress crack. I will work on this and that, little by little. No heavy work for it for a while.
