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Archive through June 25, 2007
- Thread starter sblunier
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Help Support IH Cub Cadet Forum:
jarrod m, i would check the tension pullie on the deck. they will freeze up and as the belt wears it loses its tension. that deck will cut just about anything when its ajusted right.its the arm on the pullie not the pullie it self that freezes up. check it out.
KENtucky, you must be running on no sleep again. Steve and Roland have it right.
Jarrod, I have to agree with Steve check the PTO clutch. The PTO on my #1 125 recently went out. In my case I think I just wore the friction disc out because the tension spring is intact. I can turn the clutch on the friction disc by hand when it is engaged.
Steve, nice line up! Those are nice and shiny too!
I like the sign in the shed, did you use a flash for that photo? The sign is sure lit up.
Jarrod, I have to agree with Steve check the PTO clutch. The PTO on my #1 125 recently went out. In my case I think I just wore the friction disc out because the tension spring is intact. I can turn the clutch on the friction disc by hand when it is engaged.
Steve, nice line up! Those are nice and shiny too!
Roland B.,
So if I'm understanding you correctly, if I set my digital VOM at, say, 0-2000 Ohms, then place one probe on each terminal of a normal switch, it will read ZERO or at least very low (indicating a low resistance thru the old wires) when the switch is "on", indicating continuity, or capable of letting current thru. If it reads >2000 (which is the same as "infinite"?), then it means that the connection inside is broken, very corroded and/or slowing or holding up current flow, defective, or grounded, correct?
Thanks again for your assistance!
Ryan W
So if I'm understanding you correctly, if I set my digital VOM at, say, 0-2000 Ohms, then place one probe on each terminal of a normal switch, it will read ZERO or at least very low (indicating a low resistance thru the old wires) when the switch is "on", indicating continuity, or capable of letting current thru. If it reads >2000 (which is the same as "infinite"?), then it means that the connection inside is broken, very corroded and/or slowing or holding up current flow, defective, or grounded, correct?
Thanks again for your assistance!
Ryan W
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- Allen Schumacher
Ryan, touch the test probes together and watch what the meter does. Thats a good circuit. How far the needle moves describes the quality of the circuit. On a low range you should peg the needle when testing, just as when you touched probes together.
If you are using an analog meter you must first ZERO the meter. You do this by touching the two leads together and adjusting the needle to read ZERO. "0" Ohms means that there is NO resistance between the two leads. An open circuit has INFINITE RESISTANCE a closed circuit "continuity" has ZERO to near ZERO Resistance. Analog Meters have the OHM Scale running Opposite the Voltage Scale. WHen the leads are shorted/touched together, the needle will move to the Zero end of the Ohm Scale. Digital meters will usually read ZERO OHM for closed circuit and no reading for open circuit...
If the coil on the PTO has Zero to near Zero ohms when one lead is attached to the wire from the coil and the other is touching the frame, needs to be bare, not painted, then the PTO Coil should be good. If when you do the same thing and get NO Needle movement, then the Coil is bad or you are not contacting either the ground or the wire properly. Can check if you have a good ground by touching both leads to the frame and the needle should go to the Zero End of the OHM Scale. Some of the first sessions from when I taught Electronics Classes in the early 70's.
If you are using a digital meter you will eithr get a reading, usually very low but not quite ZERO if the switch is working since any corrosion will result in some resistance and "NO" reading if the circuit is open on most digital meters. My meter for example will have a series of underscore lines where each digit would appear. Again, if you touch the leads together, it should display "0". If it has the "sound" option, turn it on and it will quickly tell you if your circuit is open "not working" (NOW SOUND) or closed "passing current through" (SOUND)
If the coil on the PTO has Zero to near Zero ohms when one lead is attached to the wire from the coil and the other is touching the frame, needs to be bare, not painted, then the PTO Coil should be good. If when you do the same thing and get NO Needle movement, then the Coil is bad or you are not contacting either the ground or the wire properly. Can check if you have a good ground by touching both leads to the frame and the needle should go to the Zero End of the OHM Scale. Some of the first sessions from when I taught Electronics Classes in the early 70's.
If you are using a digital meter you will eithr get a reading, usually very low but not quite ZERO if the switch is working since any corrosion will result in some resistance and "NO" reading if the circuit is open on most digital meters. My meter for example will have a series of underscore lines where each digit would appear. Again, if you touch the leads together, it should display "0". If it has the "sound" option, turn it on and it will quickly tell you if your circuit is open "not working" (NOW SOUND) or closed "passing current through" (SOUND)
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- Allen Schumacher
Ryan, a second note. Remove the plus(red) terminal from the battery when checking for broken circuits.Otherwise You'll smoke the meter if you test across the wrong wire combination.
Ryan,
Your interpretation is correct. Don't overlook the connections themselves. If they are corroded and you scratch the surface down to clean metal with your probe, you're getting an accurate reading of the internal parts. If you just lay the probe on the corroded surface, you're getting a reading including the corroded surface. Make sure all connections are clean.
Steve specified WIRE with no breaks, which should have close to zero ohms of resistance, so he is correct in that aspect. A resistance-type spark plug or coil wire is an exception to this, with a specified amount of resistance per foot of length. Any wire will increase resistance the longer it is, which is why you want to make sure that a long extension cord is sufficient gauge for whatever you're using at the end. Next time you see an extension cord in its original packaging, it should tell you how many amps you can safely draw based on the length of the extension cord. You're not going to run into that problem with any wire length of the proper gauge on a Cub Cadet, with the possible exception of battery positive and negative wires, which seem to be little under-sized in some situations (my opinion).
Ken is partly right when he said that continuity means the circuit is closed which would relate to a voltage path. Assuming the circuit is powered or "live", there would be a needle rise on the VOLTS scale, not the ohm scale. Do not use a meter to check ohms on a live circuit. Zero ohms means there is continuity, which indicates a closed circuit, allowing flow. Infinite ohms indicates an open circuit, which means nothing is getting through at normal voltage.
Ken is probably looking for a blown light bulb about now.....
Roland is right with one possible exception. It's been a while since I used an analog meter, but I believe that instead of no movement of the needle, the needle instead would "peg", showing infinite resistance. Usually on the meters I have used, zero movement indicates zero ohms. Different manufacturers could have set their meters up in different ways. Regardless, the scale will be marked from zero to infinite. When the two probes of the meter are touching each other, the meter should indicate zero ohms, and when they are apart, it should indicate infinite ohms, meaning the circuit is open.
Your interpretation is correct. Don't overlook the connections themselves. If they are corroded and you scratch the surface down to clean metal with your probe, you're getting an accurate reading of the internal parts. If you just lay the probe on the corroded surface, you're getting a reading including the corroded surface. Make sure all connections are clean.
Steve specified WIRE with no breaks, which should have close to zero ohms of resistance, so he is correct in that aspect. A resistance-type spark plug or coil wire is an exception to this, with a specified amount of resistance per foot of length. Any wire will increase resistance the longer it is, which is why you want to make sure that a long extension cord is sufficient gauge for whatever you're using at the end. Next time you see an extension cord in its original packaging, it should tell you how many amps you can safely draw based on the length of the extension cord. You're not going to run into that problem with any wire length of the proper gauge on a Cub Cadet, with the possible exception of battery positive and negative wires, which seem to be little under-sized in some situations (my opinion).
Ken is partly right when he said that continuity means the circuit is closed which would relate to a voltage path. Assuming the circuit is powered or "live", there would be a needle rise on the VOLTS scale, not the ohm scale. Do not use a meter to check ohms on a live circuit. Zero ohms means there is continuity, which indicates a closed circuit, allowing flow. Infinite ohms indicates an open circuit, which means nothing is getting through at normal voltage.
Ken is probably looking for a blown light bulb about now.....
Roland is right with one possible exception. It's been a while since I used an analog meter, but I believe that instead of no movement of the needle, the needle instead would "peg", showing infinite resistance. Usually on the meters I have used, zero movement indicates zero ohms. Different manufacturers could have set their meters up in different ways. Regardless, the scale will be marked from zero to infinite. When the two probes of the meter are touching each other, the meter should indicate zero ohms, and when they are apart, it should indicate infinite ohms, meaning the circuit is open.
kconway
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- Kevin Conway
Since the subject of the day seems to be electrical, I've got a question. I was checking the starter generator on my 104 because it doesn't seem to be charging. As described in the FAQ's I tried checking the continuity between the commutator and the armiture/shaft. I have a digital VOM and the display never moved off of "1". What does that mean?? The instructions that came with the VOM said that a 1 meant it was overrange and to move to the next highest setting. I did that but still nothing other than a 1 on the display. Any guidence would be appreciated.
Thanks
Thanks
rbedell
Well-known member
Larry M:
I forgot to mention one thing concerning my previously posted diagram. The motor should be at full throttle when making the voltage checks.
Sorry if I lead you mislead you.
The 14.7 should enter Terminal A on the Ignition Switch. With the key in the "on" position, the contacts A to B are made, and thus charging your battery.
When I referred to grounding, there has to be zero ohms resistance between the V/R case and the negative battery terminal.
While the Motor is running at full throttle, there should be a max of 14.7VDC between the two battery terminals.
I forgot to mention one thing concerning my previously posted diagram. The motor should be at full throttle when making the voltage checks.
Sorry if I lead you mislead you.
The 14.7 should enter Terminal A on the Ignition Switch. With the key in the "on" position, the contacts A to B are made, and thus charging your battery.
When I referred to grounding, there has to be zero ohms resistance between the V/R case and the negative battery terminal.
While the Motor is running at full throttle, there should be a max of 14.7VDC between the two battery terminals.
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Larry, one note, if your battery is really in bad condition, you could be drawing more power than can be handled by the regulator thus pulling down a bit on output voltage. Then again the reg could be shot and you are reading actual battery voltage.
kide
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Since I haven't contributed to the electrical discussion... at this point Larry most likely has either has a bad VR or questionable battery. My first check, easier to do with a digital meter than an analog, is to measure the static voltage of the battery with the engine stopped and key off and then start it and watch for a rise in voltage. Static voltage of the battery will always be less than the running (charging voltage)..
Also - as cheap as they are now, a couple of digital meters in the shop should be a must (at $4.95, a backup should be in most everyone's range)- no question whether the calibration of your resistance readings are off because of low battery as with an analog meter and when it comes to measuring coils of any type, an analog meter, unless it's a good 'ol VTVM (yup - still got 'em) usually doesn't have a good enough low range to measure them.
Also - as cheap as they are now, a couple of digital meters in the shop should be a must (at $4.95, a backup should be in most everyone's range)- no question whether the calibration of your resistance readings are off because of low battery as with an analog meter and when it comes to measuring coils of any type, an analog meter, unless it's a good 'ol VTVM (yup - still got 'em) usually doesn't have a good enough low range to measure them.
Roland and Frank,
Thanks for the reminder. I said it's been a while, probably twenty years or more. It sure isn't the only thing I've ever forgotten. I did say it was just a possible exception, and stated that the meter has a marked scale, so people could read it. It wasn't a criticism, and there was no offense intended or taken. Ryan said he has a digital meter, and his eyes are spinning around anyway, so I'll stop before his head explodes.
Do you guys still use/have analog meters? Good point on "zeroing" the meter.
Regarding Kevin's question, from the FAQ mentioned:
"4. With the armature out, use the ohmmeter to check from the copper commutator bars to the armature laminations or the shaft. It should show no resistance, infinity. If the reading is 0 ohms you have a shorted armature. If it is 40 or more ohms, it probably has carbon dust between the commutator bars and the frame or shaft. Blow it out all around the commutator and windings."
The statement "It should show NO RESISTANCE, INFINITY" is confusing. No resistance would be zero ohms, and an open circuit would read infinity.
It sounds like he's reading infinity if he has kept moving up the scales, according to his "1" reading information from his meter's instructions, which should mean that it's good.
Roland, Frank, Kendell?
Thanks for the reminder. I said it's been a while, probably twenty years or more. It sure isn't the only thing I've ever forgotten. I did say it was just a possible exception, and stated that the meter has a marked scale, so people could read it. It wasn't a criticism, and there was no offense intended or taken. Ryan said he has a digital meter, and his eyes are spinning around anyway, so I'll stop before his head explodes.
Do you guys still use/have analog meters? Good point on "zeroing" the meter.
Regarding Kevin's question, from the FAQ mentioned:
"4. With the armature out, use the ohmmeter to check from the copper commutator bars to the armature laminations or the shaft. It should show no resistance, infinity. If the reading is 0 ohms you have a shorted armature. If it is 40 or more ohms, it probably has carbon dust between the commutator bars and the frame or shaft. Blow it out all around the commutator and windings."
The statement "It should show NO RESISTANCE, INFINITY" is confusing. No resistance would be zero ohms, and an open circuit would read infinity.
It sounds like he's reading infinity if he has kept moving up the scales, according to his "1" reading information from his meter's instructions, which should mean that it's good.
Roland, Frank, Kendell?
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