1862 won't start

[rjkaroses]

I have an 1862 that won't start. Was told it may be a fuel pump and you have to lift the engine to replace. I was also told that you can get an after market fuel pump that can be installed w/o lifting the motor. Any suggestions? Other issues maybe besides fuel pump? I haven't tried turning it over yet to see if fuel is being pumped If it warms up enough I'll try that first. Thanks. Randy

 

[jchamberlin]

Randy: Before cranking it over, drain the oil to make sure that the gas tank hasn't emptied itself into the crankcase.

Regarding the pump, if it is the problem, you can get a mechanical pump as originally installed in your tractor, use an electric fuel pump designed for an automotive application at 7 psi, or get an electrical fuel pump designed to replace your original mechanical pump at 3 psi. One of this site's sponsors, Kirk Engines, markets a nifty version of the latter, 3 psi versions (see colorful icons above).

Personally, I like the electric solution because it builds pressure when you turn the key, fills the fuel bowl of the carburetor, and lets the motor start on the first turn, every time. I've been running an automotive style pump on my M18 equipped 782 for several years with no problems, but I inherited the fuel pump with the motor when I purchased an older Sears model tractor. If I were in your position I would opt for the Kirk Engine supplied unit. Just my two cents worth.

 

[sblunier]

Randy,

1st, you do not have to pull the motor to replace a fuel pump......you don't even have to pull off the side sheets.

2nd

You are jumping to way to many conclusions.

It is a good idea to pull the dipstick to make sure the oil isn't over full or gas laden, per the post below, before proceeding (if it isn't, no need to drain oil just yet...)

Do you have spark? (ignition modules are know to go bad on these and you have to pull the motor for that )

Do you have fuel at the carb?

Needle valve stuck?

Carb gummed up?

Hole in float and crank case full of fuel?

Bad fuel pump and no fuel at carb....

Get my point????

Check for spark, if you have it, check for fuel at carb, if you have it, drizzle some gas down the carb bore and see if it starts. If it fires but won't stay running, rebuild carb.

Mag 18's are very simple engines, they will run without a single wire from the switch hooked to them (just won't shut off), so if they have spark and fuel, you can unplug the engine harness from the tractor and take all of the tractor wiring out of the loop...and they will still run.

My bet is:

1) carb needs rebuilt/no fuel to carb
2) ignition module toast
3) bad fuel pump (usually presents as gas in crankcase). If no gas in crankcase, it should run of a full tank of fuel and die when it won't gravity feed anymore.

Be methodical and chase it down, don't go changing parts without looking for the answer first. A teaspoon full of good gas down the throat of the carb will tell you a bunch about the condition of the fuel system....if it runs on "spoon feeding" you have fuel delivery issues, otherwise look elsewhere.

 

[rjkaroses]

Mr. Plow,
Thanks for the advice. I agree not to be changing parts before we diagnose the problem. This is what a CCC service tech thought it would be. So I guess my question was, is the fuel pump a common issue. 2nd question is: if the fuel can gravity feed into carb and crankcase, why do we need a fuel pump? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept? Anyway, i do agree that I need to verify if it a spark or fuel issue. Thanks again for the suggestions. I'll keep you posted.
Randy

 

[sblunier]

One half of tank is above carb, one half Below.....pump is for bottom half only. When pumps fail, they usually dump all of the gas above the carb into the crankcase.

 

[sblunier]

One half of tank is above carb, one half Below.....pump is for bottom half only. When pumps fail, they usually dump all of the gas above the carb into the crankcase.

 

[sblunier]

I was thinking of an 1872, with the half and half tank, on an 1862 it will be almost entirely below the carb.

 

[rjkaroses]

OK. I did some diagnosis this afternoon. No fuel coming out of the fuel pump. Replaced the pump and it fired up. However, it runs at WOT only. Not sure what the guy before me did to it. It appears that the gov and throttle linkage are in appropriate positions. I'm looking for a diagram for gov linkage positions and also does anyone have the info on carb adjustments. Or is there something I missed?????
Randy

 

[sblunier]

Readjust the governor. If it does not respond to throttle with all linkages in the correct positions, it may have a broken governor gear.....a complete tear down replacement.

 

[rjkaroses]

Mr Plow or anyone,
Is that common for the gov to go out of adjustment? I've adjusted the gov on K Series, but that was after an overhaul, Does anyone have a resource to get the procedure to do that? Its an 18 h.p Kohler Magnum. Thanks
Randy

 

[rjkaroses]

Thanks for all the help. I readjusted the gov and it fired up. Now I think I need to fine tune the carb settings. Does anyone know what the initial settings are supposed to be? Also where is the relief valve for towing. We were able to push it on and off the trailer, however I or the owner couldn't find the release lever. Just wondering, don't need it now that it is running .
Randy

 

[sblunier]

Probably a fixed main jet in an 1862. Idle jets at 1-1/2 turns usually get them running and you can go from there.

Glad the governor adjustment fixed it!

FYI, a KT17 adjustable carb makes a nice upgrade to the M18.

 

[sblunier]

Kohler built Adjustable is 2-1/2 main, 1 idle (main needle on top)

Walbro Fixed is 1-1/4 idle

Walbro adjustable is 1-1/4 for both main and idle (main needle of side above bowl)

Idle jet is at mounting flange, both models.

 

[sblunier]

My experience with Mag series engines is that Cub Cadet GENERALLY spec'ed fixed jet carbs in the 1811/12, 1872, etc. that's not to say that adjustable jet versions aren't out there, but fixed jet Walbro's seem to be the most common on the Mag series engines in Cubs.

 

[rjkaroses]

Thanks again for the help. I was able to fine tune with carb adjustment. Thanks also for the "automatic relief valve" info. Makes sense. The 1862 still seems to be a hard starter when cold, however so is my JD 212(Kohler K series). What about the Kirk ignition sets? I was wondering how they work in cold weather states. Based on what I have been reading, it appears they are worth the $$$. Thanks again for all the advice. Priceless forum.
Randy

 

[mmasheris]

Randy you need to get in touch with Don Vogth.He is in yourtown ahe makes puller motors and parts cub cadets .