1650 "refresh"

[jboetsma]

Just posted in the welcome section. about a week ago I picked up a 1650 on trade. Person said it ran but would only move a few feet then stop. Figured it was worth a shot and I've been doing wheel horse tractors for over 10 years so no stranger to fixing old iron.

upon getting it home and starting it up, I confirmed what the last owner said. pulled the tunnel cover and saw that the relief valves were leaking really badly. Having done some research, I wasn't surprised by this. Proceeded to roll it in the barn and pull the fender pan off. Took the top cover off the transmission and saw that it was also very low on oil, maybe 2 inches in the bottom at most. Decided to just go full in and drain and clean the transmission housing. Went to the local fleet parts store in town and picked up a new filter for the transmission. Next on the list was to pull the valves and rebuild them. I had found an article that explained the process and I felt competent that I could do it. Took the valves to work and turned them down on the lathe. pulled them apart and cleaned them up. Found that an 008 O ring seems to be the perfect fit. reassembled and had our tool shop repair man tack weld them back together for me with a tig. Was going to mig weld myself but this turned out so much better having them tigged.

I traced the original rear cover in a CAD program and laser cut myself a new gasket for the rear cover. Bolted it all up and filled up to the plug with new fluid. popped the valves back in. Also made a new gasket for the top cover and bolted that on. Got the tractor fired up and let it idle a bit to get fluid moving and took it for a spin. Worked like a champ.

Next was on to the engine. I knew the quiteline tractors had isolation bushing issues. Well turns out there was only 1 bolt left holding the engine in the frame. right rear isolation mount bolt was completely missing. front right was the one that was still there. left two bolts were there but the oil pan bolts were missing so the bracket wasn't even attached to the engine.

This is where I am at right now. engine is ready to be removed, just need to get my kubota over to it to lift it out of the frame. I did take one of the good isolation bushings out and modeled in 3D cad on my computer. I'm going to try and 3D print some from TPU material. Its a polyurethane material that is oil resistant. I can adjust the durometer of the bushings by adjusting the infill amount and structure. I think it will work but I'll monitor it closely once I get it all back in. oh, also plan to weld the two engine frames together with a cross bar per a recommendation I was given.

With the engine and driveshaft out, is there anything else I should look at? my cooling fan is toast so I'll likely reverse engineer and replicate that as well. looks like there are pilot bushings both on the transmission and the engine. do those just need to be cleaned and greased?

also included the serial number. based on the tractor data website I'm assuming its around a 78 but sure someone else can confirm.

Justin

 

[glippert]

Justin - Given your description of the loose & missing bolts, I'm guessing the oil pan threads/holes are messed up pretty badly. At least that was my experience in a similar situation. You may want to consider replacing it with a cast iron oil pan. RF Houtz, a forum sponsor should be able to help you out with that. Or, a parts wanted ad in the For Sale & Wanted section of the forum. Keep sharing your progress and photos, please!

 

[jboetsma]

Was going to post todays photos. And yes you are spot on. Aluminum oil pan is trashed. Found a guy through the FB group who has a cast one as well as a fair priced set of OEM engine bushings so I bought that from him. Also one of my spindles is bent. Could maybe straighten it in a press and weld a plate on but the same seller had a spindle for $20 so figured I’d just buy it.

 

[Bret McFarland]

I believe the pilot bushings are impregnated with some kind of lubricant, but if they're originals they may be worn. You also may want to consider replacing the flexible couplings on the driveshaft while the motor is out (if you can afford it).

 

[PACub100]

Do you have plans on tearing down the motor while it's out?
Kirk sells balancing plates for it... Highly recommended by others.
Also, make sure to use the side shields... they keep the motor cool. You can't believe how much air is moved out the front

 

[jboetsma]

Do you have plans on tearing down the motor while it's out?
Kirk sells balancing plates for it... Highly recommended by others.
Also, make sure to use the side shields... they keep the motor cool. You can't believe how much air is moved out the front

Don’t be pan to tear it down much. Just clean it up and replace some gaskets.

Not sure what you mean by side shields but if you are talking about the hood side panels, I don’t have them.

 

[Doug Rusk]

That's what he's talking about.

 

[PACub100]

Don’t be pan to tear it down much. Just clean it up and replace some gaskets.

Not sure what you mean by side shields but if you are talking about the hood side panels, I don’t have them.

Yeah, you'll want to get a set of them. You can find them pretty easily...

 

[jboetsma]

Curious how that helps keep it cooler by enclosing the engine compartment? I guess I assumed with the side covers off it would be just like the 1X8/9 tractors? what was different about those that let them run without the side covers?

 

[Doug Rusk]

It's suppose to help duct or direct the air around the cooling fins as it comes off the fly wheel fan. That's they way they were designed.

 

[jboetsma]

I get that about the engine shroud covers, obviously wouldn't run the engine without those, guess I was just confused how the hood side panels made a difference. I feel like these kohler engines were stuffed in all sorts of machines and many are open air like that. I guess I'll look around and see if I can find a set. May go look at my cousins 1450 to understand how the hood side panels helped move air.

 

[jboetsma]

may also get some flack for not using a transmission filter off the "official" list but I found that the PF710 from Luber Finer crosses with the WIX 51410 and after a few emails back and forth with their very knowledgable support, it appears to have the same micron effeciency as the WIX filters and they are made in the USA (though I don't get bent about that sort of thing). was able to find it at my local fleet supply store for $8.

 

[Doug Rusk]

The idea is the flywheel fan draws it in from underneath and blows it up around the fins and with the help of the engine tin and hood and hood side panels is blown out the front.

 

[jboetsma]

The idea is the flywheel fan draws it in from underneath and blows it up around the fins and with the help of the engine tin and hood and hood side panels is blown out the front.

ok that makes sense now. It still leads to me ask, what is different about all the other previous models? did they have cooling issues or was this just "better"? I ask all this as I prefer the look with them off. even growing up, my grandpa always ran his cub without the side covers.

 

[Doug Rusk]

I can't answer if it's better or not but presumably the manufacturer knew what they were doing. Myself I think they look funny and incomplete without all the panels they came with.

Really important to make sure mouse nests ect cleaned out from under the engine tin, as I'm sure you know.

 

[dfrisk]

I put aluminum expanded metal on the bottom of my 982 with the stock B48G 20 hp Onan engine, the original bottom cover disappeared in the first 20 years before I got it. The ONAN really pulls in lots of cooling air, and grass clippings too, when I mowed with it I blew the expanded metal off with compressed air after every mow of the yard. I could feel air above the throttle lever and hydro lever being sucked into the dash when that bottom cover plugged up.
I mow with a Cub Cadet TANK LZ 54 commercial zero turn with a 27 hp Kawasaki V-twin, 850 CC. It gets blown clean after every mowing too. And about every other year I pull all the stamped steel covers off the engine and really clean it good. I read on another forum by a guy who is a repair tech at a dealer, one guy never cleaned his engine, it seriously over-heated and seized, had to replace the complete engine. I've got a roll of fiberglass window screen, really fine mesh, I'm going to put a screen cover over the whole engine compartment. Then 10 seconds with a leaf blower or air compressor blow gun cleans everything.

 

[kmcconaughey]

The side panels are there to make it quieter, not cooler. The brochure from when the "Quiet Line" series was introduced only mentions about making it quiet, not a single word about keeping it cooler, even on the rest of the pages. I don't doubt that it pushes a bunch of air out the front with the side panels on, as it has less open area to move the air so it's forced out the front. On the older open sided tractors the same amount of air is moved through the engine fins but it exhausts out both sides and the front so it feels like there is less air movement.

 

[lpalma]

Yes but it would look uglier than it already is, Never really liked the look of them, but to each his own...

 

[Doug Rusk]

I forgot about the sound aspect. Ty.
Wonder how quiet you could make one with some self adhesive sound deadner on the inside of the hood and side panels...

 

[Bret McFarland]

The side panels are there to make it quieter, not cooler. The brochure from when the "Quiet Line" series was introduced only mentions about making it quiet, not a single word about keeping it cooler, even on the rest of the pages.

The "Quiet Line" series was a redesign that included a larger muffler than the 169. The side panels were absolutely all about AIR FLOW to the front of the tractor. The QUIET was mainly from the much larger muffler which had a pot-metal housing to mount it and help block off the heat from the motor. With all of the air moving forward -- this moved heat away from the engine, and exhaust & noise away from the operator. So it all worked together: side panels, large muffler in a housing, and sealed firewall for venting air flow out front. How could metal side panels keep anything quiet?