Starter engagement issues

[exSW]

Still waiting for picture and/or video of issue...

No pics or video. Changed phones and I’m not versed in this ones media quirks.
It’s pretty straightforward. The bendix extends to the full extent of its travel and just spins in space with out engaging the flywheel at all.

 

[jstich]

Still waiting for picture and/or video of issue...

Judge Judy says; " No picture; it doesn't exist, no video; it didn't happen"

 

[mgonitzke]

If the bendix is spinning in space without engaging the flywheel, it is not extending to the full extent of its travel.

 

[exSW]

If the bendix is spinning in space without engaging the flywheel, it is not extending to the full extent of its travel.

When the bendix gear is parallel to the flywheel it’s fully extended.

 

[mgonitzke]

When the bendix gear is parallel to the flywheel it’s fully extended.

The plane of rotation of the bendix gear is always parallel to the plane of rotation of the flywheel. I assume what you meant is that the bendix gear is in the same plane as the ring gear when the starter is engaged. Now, before you said:

Yes. I really think this is a quality control issue. The bendix does extend properly. It will Engage the flywheel fully and start the mower. The contact pattern on the teeth is proper. The flywheel is in good condition.

It just will not make contact with flywheel after a couple starts. It’s so sloppy in its action at that point it extends and spins free.

Now you are contradicting yourself, and I (and probably others trying to help you) are at a loss as to what is going on. Are you sure the bendix gear is actually still rotating when it is fully engaged but does not turn the engine, or is the starter armature spinning inside of the bendix?

If the starter is correct, it is bolted securely in place, the bendix fully extends when the starter is engaged, and bendix continues to rotate with the shaft, what you are describing is physically impossible unless the bendix gear/shaft worm is worn to the point that it slips over, or the spacer between the return spring and gear is missing, which may cause the bendix to come off the end of the worm and slip over. These both seem unlikely given that you have had this happen to several (new) starters. By the design of the gear, it cannot overextend such that the teeth are no longer engaged.

Figure out how to post a picture, or nobody here is going to be able to help you solve this issue.

 

[exSW]

You are over thinking this. There is slop in the bendix’s action. Resulting in it not engaging AFTER a couple starts.

This started as an inquiry as to any one else have quality control issues with these starters.

 

[mgonitzke]

No, you're under-describing it. "Slop" is a very general term. I'll ask again, is the bendix gear still rotating with the armature shaft when this happens, or is the bendix gear being held from rotating by the flywheel while the starter motor is turning?

You have yet to describe this "problem" in a way that makes it clear what the problem actually is.

 

[exSW]

No, you're under-describing it. "Slop" is a very general term. I'll ask again, is the bendix gear still rotating with the armature shaft when this happens, or is the bendix gear being held from rotating by the flywheel while the starter motor is turning?

You have yet to describe this "problem" in a way that makes it clear what the problem actually is.

Nothing like that. As stated previously the bendix extends and turns. It just has excessive clearance at the flywheel which prevents it from engaging.

It spins parallel to the flywheel teeth without catching.

It’s as if the flywheel were undersized.
Except it’s not.

The bendix will engage and start the tractor when cold.

 

[etopel]

Are you 100% sure you have the right number of teeth on the pinion? From searching it looks like the 9 tooth is the common size but I did find a 10 tooth version. How well do the teeth mesh when it's cold? It may be that it just catches when cold and something moves a little bit when hot and won't catch.

 

[exSW]

Are you 100% sure you have the right number of teeth on the pinion? From searching it looks like the 9 tooth is the common size but I did find a 10 tooth version. How well do the teeth mesh when it's cold? It may be that it just catches when cold and something moves a little bit when hot and won't catch.

The contact pattern on the drive teeth is perfect.

 

[mgwin]

I guess the phrase "a picture is worth a thousand words" would definitely apply here! LOL
If a picture is worth a thousand words, wonder how much a video would be worth?

 

[mfrade]

The contact pattern on the drive teeth is perfect.

Yes, when it actually drives the engine over! I think the bendix actually works partially. The internal clutch probably slips when warm/hot. IF as you say... it extends perfectly fine every time... ( Which I REALLY DOUBT) the history with these says otherwise. That's just my opinion.. now I'm out of here.

 

[jstich]

Yes, when it actually drives the engine over! I think the bendix actually works partially. The internal clutch probably slips when warm/hot. IF as you say... it extends perfectly fine every time... ( Which I REALLY DOUBT) the history with these says otherwise. That's just my opinion.. now I'm out of here.

Futile effort

 

[digger]

Futile effort

Your right it really is! This reminds of a guy years ago that went on for 4 days asking why his tractor wouldn't start, but wouldn't give any straight answers to the 30 guys that tried to help him.

 

[jstich]

Your right it really is! This reminds of a guy years ago that went on for 4 days asking why his tractor wouldn't start, but wouldn't give any straight answers to the 30 guys that tried to help him.

And then he went away, never to be heard from again after he put a new battery in?

 

[exSW]

When bendix is FULLY EXTENDED it’s so sloppy it SPINS CLEAR of the flywheel. Not every time. When it’s a dead cold start it usually engages and starts the engine no problem. But repeated or hot starting not so much.

My original post highlighted and a edited for brevity. I didn’t ask for fix or a diagnosis. I asked if anyone else had seen this issue with Cub starters.

 

[mgwin]

Can you take any pictures of the starter when trying to start cold, and then when trying to start hot?
As I stated earlier, pictures help tremendously.

 

[exSW]

Picture.

 

[JPrattico]

Does that make some sort of grinding noise when you put power to the starter? If there's that much slop in the gear then I would think that something would have to apply a light force to push the gear away from the ring gear on the flywheel. Thus, a grinding noise would indicate that the starter gear is slightly contacting the ring gear, and the ring gear is pushing the starter gear away from it preventing proper mesh of the gears.

I have certainly never seen this sort of issue with a starter before, worst I've had was a little pin break off the top of one, causing the gear to fly off the starter. Interesting part was that this was at a show. Managed to start the tractor once with a piece of paper clip acting as that pin, then searched the show's flea market and bought a replacement starter. Much better design (a roll pin and not a tiny flimsy clip) and still works on the machine to this day.

I'm very curious about what would cause this strange situation to arise.

 

[JPrattico]

Does that make some sort of grinding noise when you put power to the starter? If there's that much slop in the gear then I would think that something would have to apply a light force to push the gear away from the ring gear on the flywheel. Thus, a grinding noise would indicate that the starter gear is slightly contacting the ring gear, and the ring gear is pushing the starter gear away from it preventing proper mesh of the gears.

I have certainly never seen this sort of issue with a starter before, worst I've had was a little pin break off the top of one, causing the gear to fly off the starter. Interesting part was that this was at a show. Managed to start the tractor once with a piece of paper clip acting as that pin, then searched the show's flea market and bought a replacement starter. Much better design (a roll pin and not a tiny flimsy clip) and still works on the machine to this day.

I'm very curious about what would cause this strange situation to arise.