Paint tips and restoration tips

[mgonitzke]

Bryan-

You wouldn't believe how many spray cans it'll take to get a decent coat of paint on it. Plus I'd like to practice painting with a gun so that I can paint my Original someday.

 

[bmcmeen]

Matt G. -

I did my 50A with it, so I certainly do

 

[mgonitzke]

Wound up thinning the primer 8:1, put 2-3 coats on the 50C and about the same on a hood that needed repainting. Looks pretty good, no runs or weird stuff. Still gonna be a 5-foot job though because of the bugs. Hopefully the paint will go on just as good.

 

[digger]

Matt,
It's not a good paint job unless you have a bug or 3 in it.

 

[jsdavis]

Well in antisipation of one day paintin the #1 123 I aquired from my work today (from the boss!!) A air dryer/cooler??? and a oil seperator. The dryer is a referigerated machine. I know its a air dryer, just not quite sure what the refer part is for cooling the air or removeing moisture or both!! Obviously more research will have to go into it!!

Now this equipment was set up for pneumatic controled air conditioning systems so I will see if i will be able to use it for painting. I have spent alot of time as of latley reseraching the painting topic here on the fourm. My only concern will be if i will be able to adjust it for proper flow and pressure.I ve seen a few pics of you guys setups.Ive read about cooling the air and im not quite understanding why but im learning. Also about the importance of moisture and oil removal.
I would like to use a HVLP gun but thoes are way beyond my price range!!

Any suggestions on the gun?

 

[mjrobilotta]

when I did my 100 i only did the outside surfaces inside has decent layer of gunk on it, but one thing i found good to get lots of frease off is a pressure washer. you still have to use degresser to get it all off but it akes the majority off.

 

[kide]

I don't know what your HVLP price range is, but Sears sells a Devillbiss gravity feed HVLP that uses a "baggie" in the cup for quick cleaning for a little over $100.00. Other than that, HF sells Chinese knock offs that'll do a reasonable job after you get 'em set up (practice, practice, practice). If you must get something used and can't find an HVLP, look for an old Devillbiss JGA...Check with Pro painters in your area, they have mostly moved to HVLP (law made most of 'em) and may take sympathy on ya. I painted my first car with a JGA and a 1 horse Sears compressor (and a handful of 15 amp fuses) and it came out looking pretty good for what I knew.....

Good score on the dryer - the "cooler" is to drop the air temperature, causing moisture to condense, which is the reason for the elaborate trap setup after it. You may want to see the CFM capacity of the system, as you'll need between 5 and 20 CFM for paint guns (depending on type)...Again, pay attention to your gun CFM requirements before buying compressor or other parts of the system....

 

[jsdavis]

Kendell
The air dryer is rated a 12scfm at 80 psi, not sure if this ok for painting.After I get done here Im going to search scfm to get a better understanding!

I have a air compressor that is rated at,Displacement, 8.1 standard cubic feet per minute. Delivery, 6.4 scfm @ 40 psi, 5.4 scfm @ 90 psi.Its a little guy, 12 gallon, A old sears unit sold for some sort of painting!

Thats a good price on the HVLP gun, from sears.I didnt spend much time but the ones I saw were anywhere from 300-500!!

Michael
This will be the first cub, or for that matter vehicle that I will paint, and I truly want a pretty paint job on it.I would like a "show" quality paint job, but realize I am in no way capable of such a job!! Ill settle fore real good!! As such I have spent countless hours Researchin painting on this site and Taking this sucker apart and removeing grease dirt and paint, Oh yes and breakin stuff along the way to support the sponsors above in future purchases.LOL This 123 is one of two, 1 worker and one hot rodder!!

 

[dfrisk]

JASON - Your dryer CFM rating sounds good but Your compressor rating is a little on the small side for conventional guns. If You haven't got a spray gun yet the HVLP gun Kendell suggests would be a good choice. I'd also recommend a gun with the paint cup ABOVE the gun which I think Kendell's recommendation is. Much less stuff to clean up after use which reduces use and cost of solvent/thinner.
If You go slow Your comprssor will keep up, but if some how You could plumb in an extra pressure tank to increase stored air volume or possibly another small (cheap) pancake compressor rated 2-3 cfm it would help.
Another bit of advice I'd like to share is to buy Your supplies from an automotive paint store. You may pay a bit more, sometimes quite a bit more for the color & primer, etc. but the materials will be of better quality for lasting durability and shine plus the advice of the people at the store will be PRICELESS for the novice painter. I'd also suggest sticking with a single "Paint System", matching primers, thinners, colors, and hardener if You decide to go that direction. Depending on how complete a paint job You want two quarts of yellow and a quart of white should paint a 123. If You want to paint EVERYTHING inside & out on the tractor I'd get a third quart of yellow. Ohhhh, and the results are 100% dependent on the prep work before painting. Disassemble as much as You can before painting, mask everything well, let it dry completely before putting it all back together and I'm sure You'll be happy with the results.
It's about 2 yrs ago Son & I did some repainting on His pickup with brite red base coat/clear coat with hardener in the clear. The results weren't perfect but then My shop in early January isn't the perfect place to paint either. But the results looked good from anything over 2-3 feet away. The Counter person at the paint store suggested all the thinning & mixing ratios and they worked great.

 

[jsdavis]

Dennis
Thanks for the reccomendations.I would like to use PPG paint and will take your advice on useing PPG primer, paint, ect (all same brand).Ive yet to find a "high build" or "filling" primer made by them although not alot of searchin has gone into that yet.I will
need this type of primer for around the dash tower and at its base on the frame because these areas are rust pitted.

I have tore this tractor down to bare bones!!I would like to sand blast it but am unsure if I will do this or just use some sort of stripper.I plan on removeing all old paint. There isnt much good original paint anywhere, so I will be buying 3 quarts!!

On the compressor I would love to buy a new shop compressor but thats out of the question.The neighbor has a smaller comp. like mine, a bit bigger, but he has added the extra tank and that seems to run his air tools really well and keeps up with his sand blaster fairly well.He has a few of them around the back yard He picked up from the military base he works at.I will see if I can get one from him.

Question how well do high build or filling primers fill? Just for scratches or will it smooth out the rust pits.The pits arent too deep but very noticable, would bondo be better to use, or do you all have any suggestions?

Thanks Kendell, dennis and michael

 

[lhinds]

Jason; Your parts ,paint,store will have a filler just for filling in those pitted areas with

 

[aaytay]

Jason-
Yes, a light "bondo" type filler will work fine for filling those pits, just make sure you put some primer down BEFORE using the bondo or you will have adhesion/rust issues later on down the road.

I have used those "scratch filling" primers with success, but they are more for filling fine (sanding) scratches rather than pits. If you use it for filling bigger pits, you could have problems with shrinkage and the pits will "show through" later on.

 

[jsdavis]

Thank you Art and Luther,
I will check the store.

Art I know that there are alot of opnions on Paint, filler, primer, Ect. From what Ive read there are two opinions on putting on the "bondo", bare metal scuffed up for proper adhesion and over primer for proper adhesion.Do you mind explaining the over primer method a bit more? It makes more sence to Me over primer Because the metal is sealed by primer, what its ment to be seald by not a body filler for cosmetics.

Also I founds a great write up started by ken, I belive , In the Machine shop thread about air compressors.

Thanks Guys

 

[jsdavis]

Just for refrence this is the offinding rust pits!!
Do you Guys Just sand blast to remove ALL rust or have you tryed the electrolysis?

 

[jsdavis]

I belive I mentioned, possibly not, the holes in the frame above the hydro, and where the previous owner removed part of the "tunnel" and welded it back on.Both areas will have to be repaired and ground.

Now on the holes, again while i was searchin I found it reccomended to use a copper backer before welding up the holes, also someone used aluminum.Is this backer just so you can fill the holes and not permanent or is it ment to stay in place?

 

[aaytay]

Jason-
I'm not sure how correct this is, but the reason I heard for priming the metal before using any filler is so that the filler doesn't attract moisture as it heats and cures. That will just make more rust. You need to get rid of that rust first, or it's just going to come back.

If you have access to a sandblaster, I would:
1)sandblast

2)Shoot the area with a "rust converter". (You can find this at any automotive store)

3) Prime

4) Bondo

5) Prime again to blend in and promote better paint adhesion.

6) Paint

Although this may not be the correct method by somebody who knows what they're doing, this is what I've done and it's worked for me.

 

[kide]

The backer is for while you are welding, the filler won't stick to the backer (although I really got a surprise one time while using TIG and a copper back, ended up making copper flashed steel

)

On using filler over primer - be very careful - ask at the paint/body shop supply for compatible products. I made a major mistake once in using an "All Metal" type filler over catylized primer and ended up with it peeling off about two years later - the primer offered no "tooth" for the filler (remember, your filler to metal bond is mechanical in nature, even the etchant primers are just enhancing that bond through more "tooth"..)

 

[dtanner]

Hi guys i`am no expert on painting but did some looking for the right material. New hlvp gun top load canister. Local paint (repair shop) said this self etching primer is the best to use. So i bought a few cans.I will have a few questions for myself from here . I want to make the fenders and hood nice so i`am thinking of wet sanding .
the 129 loader has moved ahead now that out side work has ended. Later Don T

 

[jsdavis]

Don
Im by no means whatsoever a qualified painting person!!!!
Is that primer a epoxy primer? Im thinking, not as it is an etching primer,but am qurious.Ive researched primers here on the fourm,really not anywhere else,but some like etching primers and some epoxy primers.Im not sure what i will use yet.

I was planing on PPG paint but can find no suppliers of PPG products here in the desert.I did however find a dupont and a valspar supplier.
I will have to check the FAQS again to see if they have a valspar cross refrence.Im trying to use all the same products from a manufactuer ,paint,primer hardners,thinners,ect,as dennis suggested.Makes sence to me.As im a novice I think doing it this way will be better!!

Anyone use dupont before and is it a close match?Im worried about color matches,compared to original color.I realize I should purchase the International/Case paint or some frome the above sponsor but am worried about,1st shipping,and then compatable primer,ect.

After rereading this ,sounds like over thinkin to me!!

 

[dtanner]

jason davis (Jsdavis)The label says For Industrial use only by professional ,trained painters.not for sale or use by the general public. lol apply 2 coats of primer 5 min flash between coats at 70 deg fer . allow to dry 15 min before applying primer/sealer.I will let you know how this works in a couple of weeks. Later Don T