My Next Cub will be . . .

[jchamberlin]

I've been thinking about expanding my collection of cubs, and I thought I'd start a post for myself and others to ponder possible candidates.

I currently own a Model 782 and a Model 149, both top-of-the-line models in their respective eras. I didn't particularly plan either purchase; one was given to me (There is an account of my adventures rebuilding it to date in the Restore/Rehabilitate section, see "Unconfuguliating a 782 SN 714899"):

I bought the other in order to acquire (1) a spare tractor for those times the 782 might be out of commission and (2) because it came with two mower decks. (An authentic IH mower deck is the only thing I lack to unconfuguliate my 782.):

Even though I haven't finished rebuilding either tractor, I have managed to acquire most of the necessary parts. If I didn't owe the wife a few projects around the house and all my cars were running, and all the wood I gathered from Hurricane Irene were put up, I would be splitting one of them and getting ready for paint.

Anyway, what I'm missing from my collection, besides the "rest of them" like Charlie has (or Lewis DePalma had), is a NARROW FRAME.

When I review the write-up on all the Cub Cadet models posted on Aaron Schmidt's Xtremely excellent web site, I'm struck by the models that have the squarish, removable fenders, and the metal steering pedestal; but I like my hydrostatic transmission --the only model that fits the bill is the 123. However, I'm having trouble locating a 123 on Craig's List; what I'm finding are either earlier gear drives, or more recent Quiet Line models.

Scott Stanton's 123:

As someone might note, I also don't have a gear drive in my collection, and a narrow frame gear drive would kill two birds with one stone, so-to-speak. The issue I have with gear drives is finding the right speed to mow the grass. Most of the one's I've used in the past were just a hair too fast or too slow; and the ones with two-speed axles are a bit of a pain, because when you need to change tasks, you often need to make two gear changes to find the right speed (1 change for trans and 1 change for axle).

All is not lost however, because I remember reading a discussion about the EARLY models having a better gear ratio for mowing than the later ones. However, the person making the comment failed to identify which series had the desirable ratios. I find other discussions about which models have the same or different ratios, as when trying to match up parts or swap them out, but again, no discussion of which models or what 2nd gear ratios are the best suited for mowing.

Then again, if I back off trying to find a narrow frame with a metal steering pedestal, there is always the Model 125, another top-of-the-line model:

So my dilemma continues. If someone could help me out with information regarding desirable gear ratios or identify the best-mowing model/series of tractors, I would appreciate it. Picking up a gear drive is probably the quickest way for me to add to my collection.

I've given you my story, what's yours? Or just use this thread to post pictures of your favorite tractor selections and tell us why you like them.

 

[ljones]

There is a place that sells both kinds of 2nd gears so you could buy one and change it out. I really like my 122. The only thing that bugs me about all of the tractors after the 12x 102 71 series is the fiberglas/plastic dash.

 

[mschutz]

Jeremiah, My experience with collecting Cub Cadet's is they fall into your lap when you least expect it. Let people know you collect and they come and ask if you would be interested in such and such. I don't usually 'look' for anything. And as someone here said, " my favorite is the one I'm using at the time "

 

[rmcshane]

Jeremiah- Im starting to grow partial to my 128. It has a 38 inch deck under it, and while 2nd gear is a little fast for mowing, the 38 inch deck handles it with ease. I like it because it seems a lot bigger and heavier, and mine is in fairly decent shape so it dosent have too many issues. Its also got lights for when I mow at night and the rear pto for the elevator.

The models I found not to be best suited for mowing are Originals. They are like dinosaurs. Yes, they were good for the time, but they are SLOW. Also, I thought my first 100 was a bit fast for mowing, but its just all going to depend on your preferences and likings.

As far as the hydros, I have always been a fan of my 105. It has just a stock 10hp and a 42 inch deck, but I can cruise right along in my yard. It always starts, runs good, just check the oil and go. Another small gear drive I like to mow with is a model 71. It seems to have a good ratio in it, probably because its only 7 hp.

Hopefully I didn't bore you. I hope it helps in your decision!

 

[aaytay]

Jeremiah-
I think you're going to find that no matter WHAT model you buy, it's not going to be your 'last' purchase (even though I can tell you're thinking it will be), so just buy something you find locally and be ready for another one to show up sooner than you think!

On that note, I want to clear up what I think may be a bit of confusion on your part. In your first post, you had made this comment regarding the gear-drive models:

"...and the ones with two-speed axles are a bit of a pain, because when you need to change tasks, you often need to make two gear changes to find the right speed (1 change for trans and 1 change for axle)."

If you're talking about buying a tractor with a "creeper-gearbox", think you may have it wrong. (I had the exact same thinking before I bought my first gear-drive) In my experience all of the creeper-equipped tractors I have owned operated such that whenever the creeper is in "LOW" it essentially gives 3 speeds that are lower/slower than 1st-gear. It does not "split" the gears.

Said another way, if a normal gear drive has the following gear speeds:
1st-gear
2nd-gear
3rd-gear

A creeper-equipped tractor will have the following gear speeds:
Low-1st-gear
Low-2nd-gear
Low-3rd-gear
1st-gear
2nd-gear
3rd-gear

...and will NOT have have this set up (although it would be neat to find a way to get this set up):
Low-1st-gear
1st-gear
Low-2nd-gear
2nd-gear
Low-3rd-gear
3rd-gear

Think of a creeper-gearbox as a Low-Low gearbox, rather than a "gear-splitter" of sorts.

Based on the tractors you already own, my advice would be to find a narrow-frame/gear-drive tractor, as they really are a different animal from the tractors you already own. I am mostly a fan of the Hydrostatic tractors, but I do also have more than one gear-drive model as they do serve a different, yet important purpose here on the family-2acre-ranch.

My prediction: About 8-months (to the day!) after you find a narrow-frame gear-drive you'll have an Original that somehow falls into your lap anyway, so just buy something and enjoy it now. Just wait and see.

 

[dfrisk]

ART - Yep, the creeper is a 4:1 reduction box ahead of the 3-spd, gives speeds about .57 mph, .8 to .95 mph depending on second gear ratio, and 1.7 mph, while the normal 1st gear is 2.3 mph, 2nd is 3.2 for the Original, 70/100, 71/102/122, and 3.9 mph for the 72/104/124/73/106/126, and 3rd gear is 6.9 mph.

These speeds are all from memory, may be off a bit.

Guess Wyatt & I need to get working on a TOQUE AMPLIFIER for GD CC's so you can pull the T/A back and drop speed 33% like in a full size FARMALL. I think we'll leave the over-running clutch out of the design like IH did in the prototype T/A's in Farmall H's back in 1950/1951. IH built two tractors for testing purposes that didn't have the over-running clutch and tore them apart after testing. ALL production T/A's until the BIG frame tractors, 706 & 806 and newer had over-running clutches and could free-wheel in the low side of the TA.

Having spent thousands of hours on T/A equipped tractors they were a productivity booster comparable to no other back in 1954 when they were introduced.

 

[jchamberlin]

Thanks everyone for your input, but you all aren't helping me "narrow the field" very much.

Lucas: I'm with you on the 'glass dash, that is one of the main reasons I'm looking at narrow frames. I'll have to check out the sources you mention along with my other research (see below in my response to Art).

Ryan: I found your discussion helpful, because you didn't just offer me your opinion, but the reasons for it as well, and you also "named names" of the models you liked. Of course, I'd take ANY tractor with a rear PTO, and I wouldn't let go of it, either!

Art: I am leaning toward the gear drive, yet I hesitate because of the gear ratio question. I guess I'm going to need to search out the specs for each series of tractor and lay out the their differences. Perhaps, as Ryan alludes, there may be different ratios between models because of differences in horsepower.

Yes, I guess I am confused, or perhaps I confused you about the "two speed axles," I was thinking about an OT tractor I was forced to use while waiting to swap out the motor in the 782. It was advertised as a "six speed," but the transmission only had 3 speeds, you had to shift the transaxle to get the other three. It seems to me that the transmission in the tractor "split the gears" because I distinctly remember finding my best mowing speed for the "heavy" part of the lawn by putting the transaxle in its lower range and using a relatively high gear. But when I wanted to speed up a bit around the "lighter" rear of the back yard, I had no upper "gear" to shift into; but had to shift the transaxle into its high range, which made the mower run too fast. So I then had to shift the transmission down; and then get ready to do it again when I had circled back to the front of the yard.

Slowing down and backing up around posts and other obstacles, having to shift each time, made me hate that machine. Plus, it just didn't ride or handle like my 782: although it had a "wide track," it was heavy and cumbersome. I ran into the ditch and broke the (weld-repaired) ball joint the first time I used it! The only good thing I can say about that mower is that it used a Magnum 18 which found its way into my 782, with the help of used parts from Chris Westfall. I was happy to take it to the recycle center!

Melody: I do remember you raving about your "zig-zags," but I also remember your trials with starting them in winter. (A topic I didn't fully appreciate until I acquired the Model 149.) I have heard you most recently rave about the 782 you have now: I'm kind of like Digger, I tend to find something good to say about each one, that said, some are easier to like than others. I'm trying to say "no" to ones I suspect I won't like.

Again, everyone, thanks for responding, I'll get back to you with more information on the gear ratios when I dig it up, and let you know which Model winds up being my "Next Cub."

 

[dtanner]

Jeremiah Chamberlin

I`am building a 125 now in my shop and have a deck to install on it. this will be my grass cutting tractor when it is finished. The 125 does not have the added hyd pump added , but I feel I can handle the manual lift and think it might be better for tall grass because I can lift and lock the lift in place. I will install the super steer up grade and better ty rods .I will let you know how this works in the spring .

 

[mschutz]

Jeremiah, I mow my lawn with a 127 with a 42" deck. It does a beautiful job and with the Hydro very easy to get around all the obsticles. I don't think I will mow with the 782d because the PTO shuts off when you go in reverse.

 

[jchamberlin]

Melody: I always wondered what those reverse relays were for, now I know. I'm sure they can be disabled, but I would probably prefer to use a 125 for mowing myself, since I can't stand diesel fumes.

 

[jchamberlin]

Don: I've been looking for posts of your progress on the Model 125 in the "Restore/Rebuild" Section. I'm working on a few of my own for my 782.

By-the-way, you were the inspiration for my posting in that section; I thought, if Don Tanner can post about his 125, by golly, I can post about my 782!

Really feel badly about the deal on your truck. I suspect we will be changing how the forum operates as a result. I've never checked in with the "Council of Elders," but I may take a peek to see if the topic has come up for discussion (I really don't know what they talk about in there).

I hope everyone has some happy Cub moments this week.

Perhaps we could put on an all-out search across the USA for the truck of Don's choice and chip in for the delivery charges --I would contribute!

 

[jchamberlin]

Update: I've been looking at older Cub Cadets on Craig's List and there are several CC 100s locally, but at relatively high prices. There is also a former "pulling" tractor which the owner has modified by attaching a hitch to the cover of the differential. He is quite proud of his achievement and claims the mower "runs great," the 12 HP motor smokes, but the unit comes with "good" 10 HP motor. The current owner purchased everything from the guy who built the "puller" and in my opinion paid way too much for it. He wants to get out what he has in it. Here is what he posted on Craig's list as a tractor being from the 70's:

Aside from the price (trust me its too much for what's depicted), can anyone else see why I'm not jumping all over this tractor?

The tractor came originally with a 10 HP motor in it, which, by my reckoning would make it a Model 104, which also means it wasn't made in the 1970's but was perhaps produced late in 1969 and possibly sold in 1970.

Perhaps a comparison with the 104 sold to Vince Thombley by Art Aytay will reveal why I'm not jumping on the 104 pictured above.

Looking at all the tractors in my area, and even ones far outside my area, has helped me with my tractor identification skills. I finally had a bit of a break-through in that I can now trace the different eras of narrow frames from the 70 to the 86 and the 100 to the 108, I'm still working on the 12, 14, and 16 HP, then there are the odd-ball Quiet Line and 82 series tractors.

But it is a lot of fun to just cruise the advertisements where people don't even post the model number to see if you can figure out which model is pictured. For instance, I noticed the following tractor posted as "Cub Cadet" :

I figure it is a Model 72 dating to 1967-69. Note that it has the round fenders, while the other tractors in the same model run had the smaller square fenders like the 104's pictured above.

Note also that the steering tower or console or whatever its called is steel, whereas the models with greater horse power came equipped with fiberglass dashes dating to the same period -- 1967. In fact, the steel steering tower/console/whatever continued on the 7 HP models right up to the introduction of the wide frame with the Model 86 in 1971, if Aaron's Xtremely Excellent Cub Cadet History is any guide.

I like the look of the round fenders (or no fenders at all), I even like the older square fenders, I like the steel steering tower; but I can't say I'm crazy about the 7 HP engine, and I'm not too fond of the wear-and-tear to which the fiberglass dash is heir. I'm also fascinated by all the different layouts of batteries, gas tanks, and voltage regulators found between the different series, and sometimes, it seems, within the same series-- between different models.

I'm beginning to wonder if I might not have to create my own "confuguliation" to get all or most of what I want in one tractor. I couldn't post it in the "Restore and Refurbish" section, but it might become a candidate for the "Better than New" category.

I don't know why I'm spending so much time looking at tractors I either have no intention of buying or don't even want, but I'm having fun. It beats splitting wood, even with a fancy new wood splitter! I have plenty to do around the house and yard, but here I am posting to tractor forum. Perhaps I'm forming an addiction . . .

 

[mhomrighausen]

Jeremiah C. The frame has been cutout/welded up to accomodate a bigger engine. Poor little tractor has been abused.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Jeremiah, yep, Marlin beat me to it, frame cut and widened. It sounds like you're developing quite the case of Yellow and White fever. You're Cub Cadet ID skills are getting quite good as well.

 

[jchamberlin]

Marlin, Kraig, you both got it. When I asked the seller if the frame had been cut, he replied that he didn't know, he had nothing with which to compare it.

Thanks for the compliment, Kraig. It means something coming from you.

 

[mschutz]

Jeremiah, I, like you study everything I can find about CC's. And I look at all those selling sites for no particular reason. God no's I have more then enough tractors. But I want to see whats out there. And I learn so much from everyone on here. Yea I think I'm addicted. [I may have found a 169 in my travel's.}

 

[mhomrighausen]

Jeremiah C. I think that muffler belongs on a John Deere.

Melody S. Since you're tractor picking out east would you keep a watch for a Pow'r Pup Garden Tractor for me? Angel said that it's okay for Fancy and I to have one of those critters. Fancy wants to call it the Pow'r Cat once we get one though.

 

[jchamberlin]

All:
Art Aatay's words really had an effect on me, and especially after Dennis Frisk mentioned on the main forum that gear drive tractors are better for spraying. I had a really difficult time spraying my yard for the first time, although the speed of the tractor wasn't the biggest problem.

After all the feedback and thinking about the features that matter to me, I join with Lucas to go after a tractor without the fiberglass dash. I was quite taken by a 122 I noticed on Craig's List recently, but it is very far off. I like the thought of a 12 HP engine behind a gear drive, I'll bet it IS powerful.

So, barring a Melody Schutz moment (where I stumble unexpectedly on a good deal, or someone drops off an Original at my door), I'm looking for, in order:

Model 122
Model 102
Model 71
Model 72

Although I wouldn't turn down a Model 100, a Model 70, or an Original if the price was right.

Since I'm not in desperate need for a tractor (in fact, I have to make room for what I have even now), and since a lot of people seem to want the same amount of money for any old tractor, I'm plan to analyze offerings based on their configurations (does it have a creeper gear, lights, etc.) and their accompanying attachments.

I've definitely got my eye open.

 

[aaytay]

Jeremiah-
Good call...

 

[jchamberlin]

Thanks, Art. I'll let you know what develops.