A recent acquisition turns out to prove a lesson:just because it looks good doesn't mean it is.Some guys have never been inside a trans of any type so I thought I'd give you a peak.It might make you brave and it might make make you say no way...When I jacked up the rear the wheels wobbled very bad.No doubt very bad bearings.Looked up a breakdown to know what to expect. Both outside axle brg had come apart.Removing wheels was horrible!!I used wheel puller,heat,penetrating juice etc. Axles with 2 flats for locators(no key) are in my mind the worst.Heating from the backside almost impossible,the large chunk of rubber in pic is the spacer on the axle.One wheel pulled the other eventually was cut off with torch.I had already pulled the center badly with puller and heat.The inside of housing was covered with grease that long ago went to the sides and stayed there,only one gear had grease on it...The missing balls had eaten half way thru the axles.The spiders were worn sloppy at best.The pump itself was not as bad but grooves are showing where the plungers run so it's in serious need.All (I assume) brg are made in Romania,the 2 I checked were.There's 10 and all are sealed so no grease could enter.The pump housing bolts were metric capscrews.Basically the cost of repair will seriously out weigh the value of the machine.The biggest part of the lesson is....if it is only a mower it's not made like a garden tractor.I'm still hoping the Kohler engine will run ,that's next..
-
This community needs YOUR help today!
With the ever-increasing fees of maintaining our vibrant community (servers, software, domains, email), we need help.
We need more Supporting Members today.Please invest back into this community to help spread our love and knowledge of all aspects of IH Cub Cadet and other garden tractors.
Why Join?
- Exclusive Access: Gain entry to private forums.
- Special Perks: Enjoy enhanced account features that enrich your experience, including the ability to disable ads.
- Free Gifts: Sign up annually and receive exclusive IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum decals directly to your door!
This is your chance to make a difference. Become a Supporting Member today:
looking inside a hydro of 1420
- Thread starter gary noblit
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Forum:
Maybe everyone should jack up their machines and check for axle slop before you get what I've got.This mower worked with all that wear for a long time without the operator knowing it. One of my favorite phrases: "If it whirs and churns it wears out"
So after deciding to pull all brgs this came up..The outside axle brgs are crimped in place from the outside.They can't go in,they're on a shoulder:They can't come out :It appears the housing has been crimped around the race.I could grind/cut off the housing then what would hold the brg in???I'm more than a bit shocked....
My last post on this subject but I'm almost wacko when it comes to a mechanical challenge.So ,I filed the housing down until the bearing showed all around(didn't take maybe .050).Sharpened an old bearing scraper,3 sided type,and carefully cut a groove all around the outside of brg.(most brg have a slight chamfer)With a long rod reached thru the housing and tapped out the races.If I put it back together probably the best I could do would be serious staking all around.If the spacer from the hub is correct the bearing can't come out and there were no seals.So...now you know you can replace the brg in this type of trans and I will know more to look for when buying a used machine
Attachments
lpalma
Well-known member
If you go here you can enter your 9 digit model number and access the service manual.
http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/Dealer.do?rightAll=&number1=1&number2=2&number3=3
http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/Dealer.do?rightAll=&number1=1&number2=2&number3=3
Lewis, thank you.I will do that
gchunnett
Well-known member
If you are careful enough to get good "Loctite" to only be on the surfaces you want to stay in place once you've replaced the bearings, that might work.
also the new bearing will come as a sealed unit, in differing quality of outside seals, dont save a few cents for the trouble of an oil leak
also the new bearing will come as a sealed unit, in differing quality of outside seals, dont save a few cents for the trouble of an oil leak
Gordon,thanks for the input. I shared all this for several reasons.I know a lot of guys won't go where I'll go to repair .(I hate the throw away attitude) so if it this encourages anyone I've accomplished my goal.Another point,not all cubs are created equal :buyer beware. This is a great looking machine and externally had excellent care but........todays engineering is mostly about saving dollars while speeding thru the assembly line.... my opinion: planned obsolesence..
Yeah, that's my weakness; I like shiny. New paint, shiny chrome and call Imma Sucker. Watch out for "experts". I once bought a Gravely L6 from a "reputable" trader who went to swap meets, old iron steam ups and the like and most folks regarded him as the regional expert for parts and rebuilt machines. Mine looked good in the add, the paint looked good, it seemed to start and run well right into my pick-up. Once I started doing maintenance for it's lack of performance, oh man was this thing a victim of shadetree and a crank/gearcase half full of water to boot. The rescue proved worth while. It mowed well and knocked down 2 acres of brush and Scotch Broom and still going for the last 7 years.
Greg, I bought this to refurbish and resell.I've been doing such for a few yrs and it keeps me busy.This mechanical condition was a huge surprise.I didn't notice the burned paint on the hub until I got it home:first clue. No flash light and edge of darkness when I picked it up.Won't happen again !!You did well on the old Gravely..
Could maybe drill and tap a hole through the axle tube in slightly into the bearing outside race and use a few set screws? Not ideal, I know, but might help retain it. Ideally probably machine a groove into the axle and use a retaining clip, but that's probably much easier said than done.
David, thanks for the input.I've put a lot of thought into this and set screws are a start.Getting the spacer right from wheel hub to housing will be part of it as well.I WILL make it work.The point in sharing is to make others aware that MTD has made some very cheap machines under the Cub name but it doesn't mean you have to junk it if you use your imagination...
JPrattico
Well-known member
I'm unfamiliar with belt-driven hydros of that design, if the gears only have grease on them then what acts as a fluid reservoir for the hydro motor? There has to be somewhere for the fluid to go right? Just circulating it all back through the pump over and over seems like a sure way to have it overheat.
I think the "cheap MTD" ones are fine machines, just not made quite to the same standard that the bigger ones were. More affordable for sure. I like seeing people fix these things!
There's a separate reservoir for the hydro fluid, and they are designed to operate with just that. Obviously a larger reservoir would be better, but these things are generally not working super hard in the first place, especially on lawn tractors.
JPrattico
Well-known member
Well, a small reservoir is certainly better than no reservoir! As I said I've never touched one of those types of hydros so I was under the intention that there was no reservoir at all.
Really there isn't anything wrong with these LT's so to speak they really just aren't built to the same standard as the GT's. Look at it realistically, these LT's were only built to mow lawns and they do that just fine, don't they?
This one is what, 30 years old? And still kicking? I'm still of the opinion that the 2000 series, especially the HDS ones, (which I believe came out in 94?) was the death of the "real" GTs for Cub Cadet because, while they aren't as beefy as a real GT, they were more than tough enough for how most people actually use a lawn/garden tractor and at a much cheaper price point.
Plenty strong enough to push a blade or run a blower or even pull a plow in a pinch, but mostly just rugged lawnmowers. It's also crazy to consider you can get a pretty well loaded XT3 for the inflation adjusted price of a 382.
The hydro unit is self contained and bolts onto the side of the gear casing. I would guess (???) the unit holds about 2 qts.I haven't filled it yet....One side is primary pump,second side is directional,by moving a rotating piece back and forth it changes direction of flow.I'm learning as I go as well....The splines on these shafts are very fine and are worn some, especially the directional one. ...The cost to rebuild completely is a tad high considering the value of the machine but....I really hate the throwaway attitude!! Some would say I'm doing a cobb job and I like to think I'm being innovative to save a piece of machinery from scrap.....My state of shock was finding bearings were crimped in,never saw that before....Thanks for the input.....
Gentlemen,this is the last on a 1420 hydro.I commented prior that in order to remove old axle bearings I had to file back alum housing.I did that and it's now back together.The exterior rim of housing was staked with a punch all the way around,2 set screws were added to each end.A 3/4 washer and a precise cut pipe will go between hub and axle housing.The ends of axles were buggered pretty bad from heat and pulling.The flats were cut off 1/2" and the centers drilled out to 3/8" (originally 5/16). just 1" deep.The axle was drilled cross ways and a 1/8 hard pin was driven thru bolt base and axle then ground off flat. The hubs will still lock on flats and the 3/8 bolt will keep everything snug including the bearing. While it was apart the wear on directional yoke was bad.I switched yokes around for a better fit.I put approx. a qt of 20/50 in hydro while turning the input with a drill to be sure it was bled out. It's still up on blocks but.....it works fine in fwd or reverse. Gotta' wait for some grass to see how long all this rigging lasts...The slots you see was me a little to deep with cut off wheel.It was really locked on !!
