HEATING OPTIONS:

[rodsmith]

Whats your ideas on ventless wall heaters & electric furnaces.Wood,corn ,ect. is not an option!Insurance says NO!NO!Would electric eat me alive on cost?I have 200amp service also have 80% gas furnace.But hate thought of venting out roof.

 

[glippert]

Two years ago I hung a gas heater from my garage ceiling, vented out the roof. It really wasn't that difficult, and if done properly, no worries about roof leaking, etc. I went with gas over electric primarily for the faster heat - I think electric heaters take longer to heat up a large area. Not sure about the cost, but our electric is only 6.3 cents per kilowatt-hour, and I still thought it would be less expensive to use gas. Of course your cost depends on a lot of factors, like insulation, cost of electricity, efficiency of the unit, etc.

I know this doesn't really answer your question, but I just thought I'd let you know that I think my gas heater in the garage is one of the best improvements I've ever made to my property! Comfortable Cubbing all winter long in Minnesota!

If you're really set on ventless, though, personally I'd go electric. That's just my $.02.

 

[fcurrier]

How about venting through a wall?

I'm going to try this Monitor this winter. For intermittent heat it seems to use about a quart of kerosene an hour running wide open. My brother thinks I'm storing it for him!

 

[dfrisk]

It's been my experience that electric heat, while clean and "flexible", meaning you can control areas heated very easy is the most expensive heat. Nat'l gas or LP is much cheaper to operate.

I would not go ventless if your garage or shop is attached to the house.

I insulated my 24 ft x 36 ft shop that has full 8 ft ceilings about 6-8 yrs ago, 3-1/2 to 4 inches in the walls and 6 inches all over in the ceiling. It cut the cost of heating my shop on weekends to about a third of the former cost. I still use a kerosene fired torpedo heater, 100,000 BTU, it can warm the shop up from 30-40 degrees to 60-65 degrees in 20-30 minutes and only runs maybe 10-15 minutes per hour to keep that temp. Before it used to run 30+ minutes every hour and take 40 to 60 minutes to warm up the shop.

One of the guys on another forum has an infared gas heater in his farm shop, it's a long glowing heating element with a polished stainless steel reflector behind it. They have a minimum distance you have to maintain beween the heater & walls, ceilings, and other equipment because they heat the objects in the shop, not the air, but they are cost effective heat. I'd consider installing one of those if I had more head room, or IN-Floor hot water heat so the concrete always stayed warm. But that's Big Bucks at time of construction. My shop's builder told me "NO!" on that idea.

 

[stanner]

Rodney,
I use electric baseboard, with a bank of cinderblocks over the top of it to store heat... I have a day/night meter which i run at night (after 11pm until 7am) when the rates are low, ($0.07/kWH here in NY) It runs off of a time clock. keeps the garage nice and toasty...

 

[rbedell]

Your inquiry is kinda vague.

What are your trying to heat? Are there Flammable liquids or vapors being used in the same environment? What temperature do you want to maintain? Is this continuous heating or on demand when you need it? How fast do you need it to bring up to temperature?

 

[dtanner]

Dennis Frisk

(One of the guys on another forum has an infared gas heater in his farm shop, it's a long glowing heating element with a polished stainless steel reflector behind it. They have a minimum distance you have to maintain beween the heater & walls, ceilings, and other equipment because they heat the objects in the shop, not the air, but they are cost effective heat. I'd consider installing one of those if I had more head room, or IN-Floor hot water heat so the concrete always stayed warm. But that's Big Bucks at time of construction. My shop's builder told me "NO!" on that idea.)

I did install in-floor heat in my shop and the cost was small.I bought all the piping for $300.00 and made up the headers to run the three loops in the concrete. I installed a 40 gal electric hot water heater at a cost of $169.00. All I need to run it was a circulatory pump to pump the water through the tank and the floor. I think I was out $1200.00 for the system I have . I will admit I did insulate well,ceiling has 10" and the walls have 6" of pink insulation. I also put ' foam on the outside walls under the siding.My ceilings are 10' 8" high. My shop is temp set at 65 deg and with the radiant heat you feel the warmth as soon as you walk in the shop at _10 deg temps outside.I can open the 9' 6" high x12' door and bring the Car in and the heat loss is small. Takes only a few seconds to get it back to temp with all that hot cement (4.5" thick). I think this was the best money I could have spent to heat the shop and I don`t have to worry about fire. My shop has a few tractors in there that have GAS in there tanks and that will not be a issue with in_floor heat. I would love to install a geo_thermal heat pump and run my house and shop off that system. I have read a 60% savings on my heating bill is easy to get.But the cost is high and it would take me to long to recover the set up cost at my age.I use a wood stove 3' off the floor now to heat my shop until the weather gets real cold and the shop is to cold in the mornings. I then just turn on the hot water tank and pump and I`am done with wood. Cost is about $6.00 a day here to heat my shop,and well worth it for me.

 

[aschumacher]

Not looking to hijack a heating thread but...Scott pays 7 Cents and Greg 6.3 cents. Is that the total price?? I'm paying in Central Jersey 12cents kw/hr for raw electricity plus about 6 cents for transmission/delivery, total about 18cents kw/hr !

 

[stanner]

My rate is just the electricity, the delivery charge doesn't matter whether I use 1 kw or a 1000 (sux)... I have a day/night meter, left over fromthe days when my house was 100% electric (egads!) before I put in nat gas furnace. If I had the one rate meter, I would be paying 16 cents/kwh..

 

[rodsmith]

Sorry I was so vague on what I said.My shop is 24x32&10ft ceilings.I'm noy quite finished,but will have R19 walls and R30 blowed in the ceiling.I only plan to heat when I'M out there.
Most times it will be spur of the moment so I'd rather be more of an instant heat.The gas furnace I haveis 80% eff.It is a 75,000BTU.
I was told by heating&cooling company not to vent thru wall.I can't justify spending a lot on heating!

 

[glippert]

Allen S - Yeah, our electricity is really quite cheap compared to most. We pay a "Base Charge of $4.50 per month, plus 6.3cents/kWh for the metered power used. That will be going up to a $5.00 base charge and 6.9 cents/kWh on January 1st, and the (spoiled) residents think it's terrible. (I happen to be the utility accounts manager and get to listen to it.)

(Sorry for the hijack of your thread, Rodney!)

 

[rbedell]

Rodney;

You make no mention, but if this is a shop and you are going to use a 80% AFUE gas furnace, then anything flammable in that environment should not be used while the furnace is operating. A sealed combustion chamber, as found in a 90%+ furnace, would be better suited.

 

[rodsmith]

IT is a shop and yes there will be some flammables.The 90+ furnace could also be vented with PVC pipe out the wall and cost less to operate.I have one in the house and so far in the last 3yrs we've lived here my heating bills have been very reasonable.The 80 was given to me was the reason I'd even considered it.
I haven't found a used 90+ and a new one is rather expensive.
RODNEY

 

[csrussell]

Rodney,
If you go with a 90% furnace ou will have to leave it on low all the time. If you shut it off in the winter you run the risk of the condensation in the furnace freezing and cracking the secondary heat exchanger. I would go with a 80% and keep the flamables as far away as possible, and even in a cabinet vented to the outside.

 

[aschumacher]

Rodney, years ago an auto body shop near my house had hot-air heating. the furnace was on an area about a foot higher than the main area. The fire inspector had a fit and made him put a shield around it that the top was 2-1/2 to 3 feet higher than the main area. ie: air intake was 3ft above the floor. If you you go with the 80%, this may be a good safety factor. JMHO.

 

[sblunier]

I have a 75,000 Btu Modine hanging shop furnace in the garage. It's a 1976 model that spent most of it's life heating a fire house. Looks like new and does a great job of heating up the garage for projects, etc. It runs on natural gas at 80% eff. with an AC thermostat....Best $75 I ever spent!!!!!

 

[dtanner]

Well I have found an electric furnace and will install it after Xmas. It should drop my heating bill in half for the shop so I`am told. http://www.hydro-smartwholesale.com/HydroShark3.html . Now with the 40 gal hot water tank I have to keep 40 gallons hot to have hot water to pump into the floor.The floor holds about ten gallons to fill all the pipes. This electric furnace will do away with the need for all that extra water I store now. It will heat the water as needed to circulate into the floor. So it will only use power when the thermostat call for the pump to run to pump water into the floor. This will be a huge saving as heater time will be small compared to now. Now if the thermostat calls for heat the pump will run to pump hot water from the tank to the floor and I have installed a timer to cycle the on and off times. This furnace has two elements that control the heat this furnace will put out.so if cold water is brought back from the floor the two elements will run,but if the water is warm only one element will run.and when no heat is needed the furnace will shut down.It now takes 4 min to change the water in the floor and with the timer installed the furnace will shut down till the timer lets the pump start to flush the floor again. I found that the tank would be heating water about fifty percent of the time now and that will be reduced by seventy five % with the demand I will have soon with no storage of hot water.I have been looking for a deal for one of these electric furnaces since I installed the 40 gallon hot water tank and kijiji had and add for one for sale that was used for two weeks , I talked to the owner and he installed (his plumber)it in his garage that was to big. He has four garage doors and way to much floor area. So he had the furnace removed and a larger one installed. My 28' x 30' shop is 840 square feet and his is 1400. so with this furnace good to 900 square feet I should be able to heat this shop easy with the insulation I have. The hydro shark 3 was $900.00 plus tax new and that was the reason I did not buy one before . He said he will take $300.00 for the heater and his plumber(next door) will show me how to install and transfer the warranty when I go to pick it up. I can`t pass this deal up ! I will post the change in power that it gives me. I should be able to heat the shop for about $2.50 a day. I will be happy with that lol.

 

[aaytay]

Don-
Hold the phone for a minute... I'm curfused about something...

When I use a hot-water-heater to heat the hot water in my house, any heat that doesn't get used and escapes through the 40-gallon tank is certainly "wasted" heat.

But.....

Since you're using a water-heater to heat a room, any heat that would escape through the 40-gallon tank really isn't "wasted heat" because the heat is still going into the room, just not via the floor.

Unless that new "furnace" you bought is more efficient at heating the water, I don't see how it's going to save you much electricty.

Clear as mud? Wait, now I'm even more confused.....

 

[dtanner]

Home of the Plow Special
Art
now the hot water tank is always trying to catch up to the demand of the floor and the 40 gallons in the tank. The elements in the tank have to heat 50 gallons of water and every cycle of heat takes hot water from the tank and the tank gets the cold water from the floor.
The savings will be ,I will only be heating water when the thermostat calls for heat.This furnace can turn 50 deg water to 125 deg water in seconds .I won`t have a tank that needs to be brought up to temp between cycles.I think this will save on power because I think I will have about three cycles per hr in instead of the tank working between on and off cycles. The tank seems to be on most of the time to get the water up to temp. I`am open to your ideas.

 

[dtanner]

Art
• Requires No Venting • Copper Heating Vessel
• Advanced Element Modulation • Modulation Status LED
• Hinged Cover on 12-36 KW Units • 100% Efficiency
• Flow Activated: .35 GPM • Wall Hung: 16, 20 & 24 lbs
• Temperature Settings: SH3-07 and SH3-10 - 86°to 125° F;
SH3-12 through SH3-36 - 86°to 140° F