CC 682 - My latest repair job

[digger]

Pick out the loose stuff and go for it. BTDT

 

[wshytle]

This is a fuzzy pic of the front main seal on he KT17 I'm replacing. Is it suppose to be set in so far? It is set in 9/16". There appears to be a lip inside and I'm wondering if it goes all the way to this lip??? or would setting it in 1/4" evenly be better?

Also, if this seal wasn't the source of oil coating the pto where else could it be coming from? The reason I ask is the area isn't as oily as expected and the seal looked good or better than most.

TIA!

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[bkattner]

Is it secure in the housing? I had one spin loose, almost felt as though it shrunk. I don't recall how deep it set in the housing.

 

[wshytle]

Short of replacing the idler pulley tension arm on the deck I'm pretty much finished with this 682 fix. I again found all sorts of things needing attention. My small engine/parts guy down the road had a Kohler fuel pump and since he doesn't do a lot of these pumps he let me have it for way less than its listing price. The carb was a story in itself. Once opened on the bench I found the main jet was only a few threads deep which explained the 4-1/2 turns the needle was out. The idle mixture was out about 4. How this engine even ran I'll never know. The float is a two tab float and both were way off. The carb was clean though and the bowl gaskets were obviously new. I finished adjustments and got it back together. The points cover gasket was missing on the top part of the cover and it was oily/dirty inside once I got it off. The missing piece of gasket was still inside sort of lying on the points. Both spark plugs were gapped at about .035 so I got that taken care of. Remember, Brad (owner) had just gotten this 682 out of the shop. He said they "rebuilt" the carb and tuned it up. I also found the usual after market points. I'd love to have a short conversation with the tech that did all of the work. How much money can a shop save by using after market points??? The pto was the real deal here. I had to go through a learning process a bit but now I feel well familiar. I actually "misplaced" the spacer/bushing that goes in the backside of the armature and wasn't aware. I emailed a couple of members and they got me educated plus I found the misplaced part under the wire wheel from when I cleaned the front of the armature. I assumed the s/b was just a part of the armature and it fell out without my knowing. Anyway, I could also feel what I thought were flat spots on the bearings while turning it in my hand. Once I got it on the crank it turned smooth as silk. Go figure. You can't just buy and replace the bearing without going through an act of congress to install it and a new armature is $175. I opted to run it as is and explained the same to Brad. The pto coil turned out nicely as well. The pics will show that. When I got the engine running I flipped the pto and it was very quiet starting and stopping by itself (no deck yet). I think it will be fine at least for a while.

I also forgot to mention the oil was over filled from this "shop" they took it to. They also had the darn thing for like 3 months. Once he got it back Brad ran it for an hour or so (as mentioned) and it started acting up and not starting well. This over fill was actually the cause of all of the oil in the first place. The main seal was dry but since it was in so far I was concerned about it touching the gear right behind it so out it came. Again, I'm not as familiar with these twin cylinder engines as I should be but I don't own any plus I'm mainly a yellow and white pre '81 type of cub guy. I'm not in the least scared to tackle issues on these twins but the singles are what I prefer.

The scary thing here now is I need to mow/use the tractor to make sure I've taken care of all of Brads issues. He told me he ran it for about an hour and then it started acting up badly and wouldn't start as it should. He removed the spark plugs thinking that might be his main problem and they were always black. I told him up front it was probably carb issues. I feel okay that it will run just fine since I took care of the mal-gapped plugs and the sick carb.

Didn't mean to write a book here but I really didn't cover all of the issues either so...count your blessings.

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[bjames]

That crankshaft seal is way too deep and probably loose as a goose. SKF makes a replacement that will last.

 

[bjames]

That is the rear crankshaft seal, not front.

 

[wshytle]

Bill-

So the pto is on the rear of the engine??? And I thought I was working on the front of the tractor; boy do I have a lot to learn.

I watched that Taryl Fixes All on YouTube replace a seal and he not only used red locktite around the edge of the seal but he gobbed some black rv sealant in and around the newly installed seal. It looked like a mess to me but to each his own.

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[bjames]

Yes, rear of engine front of tractor.
I only watch utube videos for entertainment, not real life.

 

[wshytle]

Bill-

I guess technically with the working end of the engine being the "rear"(?) or, in this case, the pto then you are correct. However, please get together ten people and ask them all one at a time to look at the front of the engine and observe. I'd bet at least 10 of them are going to be looking at the pto end right behind the grill. I have to just assume now that the grill IS on the front(?) of the tractor.

Why be so darn technical???? And who really gives a rats behind? I, like a lot of members here are involved with cubs for enjoyment. When people get too technical it interferes with my enjoyment and really rubs me the wrong way. That's just me.

I guess now Charlie will decide if this reply is too harsh but, honestly, you have marshed my mellow. WHY?

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[bjames]

Front seal is different than rear seal, easy to order wrong one.

 

[wshytle]

I don't know why you want to interject that info but you're exactly right Bill...the two seals are totally different sizes (OD). That's why I like to have part numbers in hand when ordering any part.

This wasn't my first dance. And Taryl Fixes All videos are entertaining (in a silly way with ridiculous acting/costumes) as well as educational. From what I've seen this Taryl guy knows small engine repair and that's why I watch the videos. I guess you could say he is serious in a silly way. Try it, you might like it. I was reluctant at first but the more I watched the more I understood his approach.

And in another way we are both wrong. The parts look up doesn't use "front" or "rear" at all that I've seen. It's blower housing seal or bearing plate seal etc.

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[kmcconaughey]

Wayne, what if you have, say a Kohler K301, setting on your bench out of a tractor and ask those same ten people what is the front and back of the engine. I bet they say the bearing plate side is the back. Unless those ten are all Cub Cadet enthusiasts, then you'll get ten different answers, some that reconsider their answers followed by some arguing and a bunch of discussion...

The way I read Bill's post(s) is he's trying to be helpful. As to your post, I say it's fine, Charlie can override me but I'm thinking he'll agree.

EDIT: Also I believe Bill was posting the front vs back info in response to your September 28, 10:32am post where you posted the photo and referred to it as the front main seal.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Wayne, BTW, nice job on the PTO repair.

 

[wshytle]

Kraig-

There's being helpful, then there's the potato potaato too darn technical thing here. I've been calling the bearing plate side (flywheel side)the rear all along so all ten people would sort of be agreeing with me, right? I assume by "back" you mean rear.

I actually called my small engine guy this am to discuss this and he says since the pto would be the working end it would technically be the rear but also said he wouldn't consider it like that because of the way it's positioned in the tractor. He actually calls it the pto seal/flywheel seal to distinguish the difference. He also said/asked if this were a vertical would the top actually be the bottom?

Heck, this would be a good (technical) debate issue for the main board if this wasn't a CCC machine. Hydro might even get involved.

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[wshytle]

Kraig (again)-

Thanks for the compliment but all I actually did was check to find the air gap at about .030, remove and clean the pto, lose a part, scratched my head till it bled, find the darn part, a little paint, reassembly, and a final air gap adjustment. Oh, I worried the heck out of Charlie trying to get educated too.



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[kmcconaughey]

Wayne, seeing that the IH Cub Cadets all have the same engine orientation, it is a suitable topic for the main forum area. And yes, in this case back = rear. I should have used the word "rear" to stay consistent.

I stand by my "nice job on the PTO repair." comment because you did a nice job cleaning it up, repairing the flaking potting.

 

[wshytle]

Well, I finally got the 682 back in good shape. I got the final part from Charlie, the idler pulley tension arm and once installed on the deck and the deck installed I was ready to test things. It had a bad vibration which turned out to be the primary (PTO) belt. I switched out the belt this morning and the vibration went away. It amazes me how belts can swell when they get oily.

I just hope Brad doesn't scream when he sees the bill.

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[kmcconaughey]

Wayne,