Basic Refurbish

[hydroharry]

Wayne and Mike - as many tractors as I've worked over I only remember installing a new fan on my 169, and yes I put the fan on the drive shaft before I installed the drive shaft, but I didn't install the snap ring until after I installed the drive shaft. I guess that's why I had a hell of a time installing the snap ring. I ended up borrowing a snap ring plier that was about 10-12 inches long, that made easy work of spreading the snap ring but still something of a real pain to get it over the new fans hub. I did this all before the pedestal was installed. Wayne, maybe that why you're wondering how I did it.

This reminded me of the time when I was first ready to assembly my 169 after my restoration work. I had decided I would do it at the tractor show in Brooklyn, CT. Kenny Weimann was going to help me and Jim Chabot was going to be there (although not necessarily for help). I worried for 2 weeks about having everything and all the tools I'd need, etc. Kenny and I arrived about 8AM as I recall, and of course it was raining. Around 10AM it had pretty well stopped and I was anxious to get going. I got the rearend installed with the frame and was trying to decide what was next - deciding I needed to get the drive shaft in before going to all the linkage and pedestal items. It was then I discovered I forgot the Hydro cooling fan. We took off quick to get to the local Cub Cadet dealer that closed at noon. He didn't have any fans in stock - so my assembly stopped at that point. Spent the rest of the day just having tractor fun. At the end of the show I took my dis-assembled 169 over to Jim Chabots shop in MA and left it there for 2 weeks until I got the fan and could make the 3 and 1/2 hour trip again. I think Kenny was with me when I finished her up. Always lots of fun when you're putting something together that's like new.

Mike - not sure where you were during this period. Had to be middle of 2001.

Ooh, and I made a typo in my post below about Charlie's FAQ. It was number 94 not 04, and Gerry Ide really deserves a ton of credit for that one.

 

[wshytle]

Harry-

The curiosity here is sort of getting to me. First of all, what do you mean by "pedestal"? Are you speaking of the dash tower/pedestal? And then, you're saying you spread a snap ring to go over a 5/8" shaft? It seems to me it would either bend or break. I've never tried that technique so I can't really say. I will say that if I found the fan had been forgotten I would simply unbolt the engine and slide it forward a tad, undo two bolts at the flex coupler, remove the drive shaft, drive out the drive pin, then install the fan/snap ring from the engine end of the shaft then reverse what I had done with the shaft pin, flex coupler, and engine.

Am I missing something here??? I've only had one cup of java so far this am.

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[hydroharry]

Wayne - it might be that my age is catching up with me but yes, that's the way I recall installing that snap ring. The hub on the fan is quite large and I'm thinking it wasn't that hard to spread the snap ring and get it over the drive shaft to begin with. The hard part was spreading it enough to get it onto the fan hub. I could be all washed up here but that's what I recall. Maybe Mike can check his snap ring and see if it spreads easily to fit over the drive shaft but then hard onto the fan.

 

[wshytle]

Harry-

I don't mean to sound so dumbfounded but from my own experience I find what you say to be exactly backwards. First, I can't figure out even how you would "load" the snap ring in the pliers and then put it around the shaft. And second, putting the ring on the fan has always been pretty easy/simple. The hub of the fan is only slightly larger than the ID of the snap ring. BTW, I don't know what difference it would make but I always point this hub towards the engine which gives me a little more working room.

Am I making any sense??? If not it won't be the first time.

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[hydroharry]

Wayne - you know what. I'm struggling to understand myself. I guess all I can say is the memory begins to fail on what the steps are since I really haven't worked over any tractors for about 15 years. One thing I was thinking - I probably did read the manual, and I'm wondering if the steps are outlined in there?
As for the snap ring fitting over the hub, I remember for certain it barely does - at least the snap ring I used - but then that also confuses me about it fitting over the driveshaft after it was installed. I'm really thinking now I must have put the fan on the driveshaft and slide the snap ring on loosely. I'm pretty certain the fan has to be slide back almost to it's exact place in order to clear the hydro lift components.
Now, just thinking thru this - it could be I had the fan on the shaft and the snap ring in place and THEN installed the driveshaft AND discovered the fan was not in the correct position so I removed the snap ring and had an H of a time getting it back on - and that's where the big ole snap ring pliers came into the picture. I remember I could hardly move the fan I'm sure because of the painted shaft.
So - I guess the moral of this story is:
Remove the driveshaft and install the fan in the correct position and install the snap ring AND then install the drive shaft.

 

[mfrade]

Harry, boy oh boy.. that fan must've given you a fight!?!? LOL... and yes, I did mine in the vise - mounted to the bench.. and I still managed to hit it and break it! arghh..

I left the New England area for southern New Mexico towards the end of 2000. But I did get to meet up with Jim once or twice. I saw him again at the 2K red power roundup in Illinois. I also met Bryan, Dan ( of crawler fame) at the same event.

I printed Gerry's efforts for the weeping gasket just in case too.

I need to investigate if there's a broken piece of the driveshaft in the rear end input shaft. I do know as it is right now the driveshaft comes up short.

 

[hydroharry]

Mike - you're right, I had one H of a time with that fan. I didn't break mine but I felt like I might be several different times.

Now, lets see here - about your drive shaft coming up short. It just can't be. Your hydro pump has to have a shaft coming out of it and it has a hole for the spirol pin. Then you have a coupling with a hole for a spirol pin that connects to it. Then you have a rage joint that connects to the coupling with 2 bolts. AND then you have the drive shaft with that T-end coupling that connects to the rag joint with 2 more bolts. The T-end coupling has a little tit area sticking out the very end that goes into the other coupling. And that should be it. Just like Gerry Ide's pic shows.

 

[sblunier]

90 deg right angle snap ring pliers!

 

[mfrade]

Steve B., Yes, 90 degree pliers! LOL..

Harry, you 've got most of it right.. except for that lil tit that fits into the other coupling part. That's missing/worn/broken..

 

[hydroharry]

Mike - hey I'm pretty certain your shaft is supposed to have the little "tit" thingy. Not sure what exactly it does except help keep the alignment to the pump output shaft. I don't recall there being a little ball bearing - believe that was only done in the later Quiet Lines. Guess it's time to visit the parts list.

 

[wshytle]

Harry and Mike-

Here it is and where it goes.

There is no ball bearing in this application.

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[mfrade]

Thanks Wayne.. that's what I thought! Mine will come up short! That little "tail" is missing some length.

I see some lathe time coming up.

 

[hydroharry]

Wayne - geez, thanks for getting those pics. I guess my memory ain't to bad overall. I also noticed you've got quite a clean hydro pump and surrounding areas, and a nicely painted drive shaft. What are you up to here. The kind of look you're showing here is most often reserved for Trailer Queens and I thought you didn't have any.

Mike - how are you gonna know how long to make that little extension piece?

 

[mfrade]

UM.. Harry? I'll measure how much is missing by the wear mark(s) in the pump input shaft.

Looks like mine is missing a 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch. I'll bore out the old and press in a new "anti-launch" shaft that's the appropriate length. It looks like the old rag joint was so bad it was creating or adding to the misalignment and vibration, causing the shaft to break at the pin.

 

[wshytle]

Mike-

That dowel measures 3/8"x 9/16"L. I don't know that to be the proper length and there's a little wear on this one but it looks to be whole. Maybe some other members have access to a shaft and can help verify.

Harry-

All of my running tractors are trailer queens in my eyes. I just work the heck out of them. What I have going is a 149 refurb. I don't care much about proper paint on a worker especially when it's underneath. I just want to avoid the rust thing and a rattle can is a fast fix plus I can't afford (won't afford) IH yellow at $16 a can so... I'm ready to place the final order for this tractor and put a 48" deck on it since I'm running a little short on mowers. All it needs are points, a relief valve flapper, and the fan which, BTW, I will install before the shaft goes into the tractor LOL.

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[dschwandt]

Wayne, try Duplicolor School Bus Yellow. Got mine at CarQuest.

I did all the small parts on my 126 w/it and you can't tell the differencs betwen those parts and the frame, tower & grill casting that I did w/IH Ironguard, it's that close a match!

 

[mfrade]

David / Wayne thanks for the info!

The measurement I'll double check later today.

And the paint sounds like a beneficial tip! I've used rust-o-leum "Biscuit" for the white, as it is real close also. I've got a can left of the cub yellow and it is real hard to get a piece covered, it is so transparent it takes so many coats, it makes the job hard to complete. Then when I mount the piece I see where the coverage was "weak"... arghhh..

 

[hydroharry]

David - "School Bus Yellow", geez - are you going into Training again

Years ago I tried the Rusty-Oleum School Bus Yellow and although it looked pretty nice, if you parked next to a Cub with the correct color you didn't actually know who was right, but then if you parked next to 2 or 3 or more with the correct color you could easily tell. So, I'm all for using the real stuff at this point. Not saying the Duplicolor ain't worth trying - just saying.

As for the yellow coverage - Mike, ya just gotta pre-coat with white. You'll be surprised how well the yellow covers if you've painted it white first. And I'm not saying to use Cub Cadet white. Any white base will work. I just use a flat white myself (yup the cheap stuff).

Hey Wayne - glad I was able to advise you to install the fan and the snap ring "before" you install the drive shaft. BTDT

(Truth is - it's one of those things thats good to have a discussion about and hopefully helps others on here realize the correct order to install things. You might be surprised how many guys make the same mistake I did - just think, if it wasn't for Mike using a ball pean hammer and breaking his fan we would never have had this discussion)

 

[wshytle]

Mike-

Several years ago I took a small (IH yellow) piece of a tractor to my local hardware store and they computer matched it in Valspar...a good paint. They kept the recipe on file and now all I have to do is tell them I need another quart and vwala! Done. I also use gray primer, not white as Harry mentioned. He did mention it was a base and I assume he meant primer. I was told long ago how primer was made to stick to material and paint was made to stick to primer so... I use an inexpensive primer in the rattle can and it works well with proper prep work to the surface being painted.

Just another few pennies worth.

Oh, and as far as the dowel length goes, I don't see it as being critical at all. Remember, there is the thickness of a flex disc in there as well. I've never seen any more than a 1/4" or so effected/worn on several shafts I've dealt with so again, 5/8" or so would be fine I'm sure. I bet ole Charlie will gladly measure a brand new one if he has it on hand but don't tell him I said so. Otherwise, I don't know where that dimension could be found.

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[wshytle]

David-

I've tried that before and it is very close. Now when I paint yellow I get a lot of parts all primed and ready then out comes the HVLP gun and the Valspar I mentioned in my last post. I know what you're saying too. Cost is the determining factor here and the high gloss black I use is cheap plus it's going on a worker and can't be seen easily.

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