Archive through October 17, 2012

[jbaker]

Bill they will suck the gas dry, I once limped it to the garage by leaning to the left,
yes I know not good ..
Fill her back up and turn it over and off you go no harm done.

Bill also the stock shut off has a screen in it on the tank side.

 

[jbaker]

Bill and Keith I was wrong at one point.

The Ql is where IH started using the indak key so both of yours are correct ..

sorry about the initial confussion

 

[jsalatino]

Bill..I just got reading your post about the gas tank issue. I've noticed the same thing with my 104.When I buy gas I usually only get a gallon-gallon & half. When I fill my tank ,I dont fill it to the rim.usually 3/4 full. I've had it start acting like its starvin for gas and even died a few times,looked in the tank and it wasnt completely out,like you said had about a inch in it. Never could understand that.But once you get it up almost a half tank its fine.Maybe it doesnt have enough pressure when it gets that low.

 

[hydroharry]

Keith O - I'm sure glad that pic of the key is blurry. I think you just figured out half your starting problems. I'd certainly head to your nearest parts store, get a key that says INDAK on it, and as soon as you're out the door throw that JD key as far as you can.

Bill J, Jeff B and Jonathan S - you darn toot'n every tractor has it's own personality. That's why many of the guys give'm a name. I'm actually surprised that Jeff can run his tanks bone dry. I've only had a few been able to do that. Most all have a little upward arc in the rubber fuel line from the tank to the carb. Since they are gravity fed on fuel I think you have to have some level of fuel in the tank to provide enough pressure to overcome the upward arc in the fuel line, sufficiently enough to keep the carb full. You'll more likely encounter the engine sputter if you're running at full throttle since that is when you are using the most gas. You may encounter the sputter and quickly pull back the throttle and she may idle fine, and you look in the tank and and see about 1/2" of gas so you don't think you're out, and then you rev her back up and run her a little and she starts sputterin again. You'll be alright at idel for awhile because the fuel flow will keep up for awhile with what you burn, but at full throttle the fuel flow won't. You'll probably have enough time at idle to get her to your re-fueling area, fill her up some and she'll be fine again. It's all pretty normal and part of learning the personality of your tractor. And get this - yes, if you got more hp you're more likely to encounter the engine actually dieing rather than sputtering, because more hp burns more gas. It may be why Bill hasn't actually encountered a "stalled" engine in his 10hp 109, yet others with 12 or 14hp it will actually die, they look in the tank and there is gas, and they can start it right back up (that little time is enough to fill the carb again) and push her up to full throttle, but have it die again shortly. There just isn't enough pressure from the low level in the tank to overcome the arc in the fuel line and keep the carb full. (I don't know why Jeff hasn't encountered this). Now Jonathan's 104 should have the glass blow filter and a metal fuel line so he would have a better chance to actually run the tank lower on fuel, but there has to be enough to fill the glass bowl and then flow to the carb. With the 2 or 2 and 1/2 gal tanks it really shouldn't be an issue once you learn how long you can run on a tank full. I always like to check my fuel level and check my oil level everytime before I started to use my tractor for something. It just became a habit. Most guys have to pop the hood to check their oil (except the 1x8/1x9 series) so why not check your fuel level at the same time.

Gary Z - yes the 100 headlight assembly bolts in the same as the blank out panel you have now. And yes all you need is the complete and correct assembly, the wiring and a switch. There were 2 styles of the assemblies used on the 70/100 but either works as long as it's complete. When you're looking make sure it doesn't have any broken threaded stems. There are 8 threaded stems/studs on the assembly. 2 are used on each headlight bezel surround (total of 4) and the other 4 are used to hold the panel in place, 2 on each side. These stems tend to be broken off. If you're good at welding you can probably weld another one on but the panel itself is pretty thin metal making it harder to do it good and look good without warping the panel.

 

[kide]

Harry:

The only time I've ever had a small engine not drain the tank is:
1) When the needle/seat of the carb was higher than the bottom of the tank. My Model A Ford pickup had this problem after putting a Stromberg '97 on top of the intake manifold - the bowl was about half way up the level of the tank - took my Dad to point out the issue...
2) When the inline filter was preventing flow - and I've had this every spring on the Vanguard/Cushman with one of the newer filters - it's almost as though gas is breaking down and plugging the fine mesh nylon screen during the winter.
3) An inline loop of the gas line is above the bottom of the tank, as you say..but why purposely put a high loop in is beyond me ????
4) If the needle is not hooked to the float and sticks to the seat - usually a whack on the bowl fixes this.

The common theory that there isn't enough pressure to overcome float level doesn't actually quite hit the target - there is some truth, but think about it, if the engine is draining the bowl, sooner or later the float will drop enough to allow gas to flow... What WILL happen though, is that as the level drops below the proper "full" level, the engine will start to lean out and start running rougher, which is usually just before it runs out. That's when pulling the choke out will bring it back to life - in my case just long enough to get from the back yard to the barn..

 

[kide]

I think maybe the Tigers have Cubs for doing their yard work at Comerica Park (it would be appropriate - right??)

Therefore I hope it's legal to say :

<font size="+2">GO TIGERS!!!! </font>

 

[jchamberlin]

Harry, Jeff, Bill: My 149 dies without warning, and refilling the tank is not enough to get it going again, I always have to break the fuel line to get the gas to flow into the carburetor's fuel bowl. After having to do this a few times (and getting my hands covered with gasoline each time), I try to make SURE I have enough gas to finish the job.

Also, I thought the upward bend in the line from the tank was intentional, to make sure that the tank did NOT run dry and suck crud into the carburetor.

Edit: Post is addressed to Gerry Ide too regarding the the fuel line; as far as the other topic --growing up in New England with the Red Sox, and living in Chicago attending White Sox games at Comiskey Park when Bill Veck was the owner --anyone but the Yankees sounds good to me (even if both my parents were born in upstate New York; my mother was a Mets fan).

 

[fcurrier]

169 hour meter: I find it interesting to see that it's attached, evidently factory, to the Positive side of the coil. I thought I was cheating when I hooked one up that way on a narrow frame.

Oh, and it definitely has no compression.

 

[digger]

Frank C.
That's what your wife says about you!

 

[vthomley]

Tom Hoffman - thanks for the advise on the 3 pin clutch driver behind a 16hp, I will add a 6 pin driver and special clutch plate to my parts list... I've actually seen these 3 pin drivers bend on a puller - but I had not thought about it on my motor swapping plan. Thanks again!

 

[hydroharry]

Frank - glad to see you've got all the right numbers on your 169. When you say you have no compression, do you have a clanky noise (broken rod)? And I assume your crankshaft still rotates, so does it just spin freely?

J, J, B and G - As J said, I also think the slightly upward bend in the fuel line is/was intentional, and possibly to help keep crud in the tank and not get sucked into the carb.

J - suggest you remove the shutoff valve from your tank and see if you have any crud, maybe even replace the valve which comes with a screen at the top.

G and J - <font size="+2">GO YANKS - you can still do it!!!</font>

 

[fcurrier]

Harry: No clanky noises (thank you Jesus) and yes, crank spins freely. Pulled plug and it neither sucks or blows. I know I'm going to have to pull the engine, just don't know when. Y'all be among the first to know!

Charlie: Actually, the second thing Jeanne said was "Oh, good, you won't need another new seat for awhile".

 

[gzimmers]

Hi, Charlie. I updated my information. Thanks for your help, guys. I'm trying to get another $50 off the price of the 100, but I might not get it done.

Thanks,
Gary

 

[kmcconaughey]

Frank, perhaps the 169's engine will look kind of like this once you get the head off.

 

[rmcshane]

Frank- Welcome to the 169 club!

With the info you have posted, sounds like you have a stuck valve IMO. Before you go through the work of pulling the engine, try pulling the valve cover and whirl that heifer over a few times and watch the springs to see if they move. You may just get lucky and have a stuck valve.
If you have already ruled that out, then just ignore my rambling.
Good thing there is no clanks or knocks. #4 169 was pulled in the shed a few months ago. I threw a battery in it and turned it over...BANG BANG BANG. Rod was good, valves were working. Turns out the piston broke on the PO and they luckily got it shut down before scratching the bore. It was in the cylinder sideways, broken rings everywhere, piston skirt everywhere...a mess. New piston, rod, rings, gaskets, valves and a good hone job...it runs like a top.

 

[dfrisk]

GERRY - When I put the K321 in my CC, part of the plan was a larger gas tank. The 72 still had the 5 quart tank on left from the K161/181 it was built with. And heading back to my truck at PD's after two rounds was getting old. New larger tank was sloped so ALL the gas drained, while plowing... leaning to the right, which with the fuel valve on the left of the old tank made for running out of gas sooner than you planned. Plowing I had maybe 1-1/2 hr of run time.

The new tank held almost three gallon, almost 50% bigger than a stock K321 was built with, but the sump was lower than the carb fuel inlet. SON found a Kohler fuel pump cheap on Evil-Pay and We were in business.

I really liked that big tank, increased run time to about five hours with the K321, had a flush mount fuel cell filler, billet aluminum filter, but still wasn't big enough to mow the whole yard without a splash & go pit stop for more gas. Then metal fatique started creeping into the front mounting brackets and I wasn't welding on a tank that had gas in it. Some day I'll make a new one with stronger mounts. And I'll find something besides Eastwood gas tank sealer to seal the inside of the tank with.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Denny's fuel tank:

 

[fcurrier]

Will I get hit?
Little sister helping 169 into cold storage>

Done with 169 for now:

Edit: (didn't get hit).
Aww, Ryan--I thought I was so done for now. Wouldn't it be something if it was as simple as a hung up valve! See, the older I get the more I expect the worst, overlooking what might be a simple solution. It's got a good battery in it, so now I guess in the fairly near future I've got to check your theory out. Thank you, thankyouverymuch.

 

[kide]

Harry et al.: Relying on a slope in the fuel line to keep crud outa the carb???

(that's what the filter bowl is for...) Note that the fitting in the tank has a slight lip - that probably would have more effect than a bend in the line (all your crud will slide past the bend the first time you head down a hill.... BTW - Neither of my Cubs has it...

 

[mgonitzke]

Jeremiah-

If you have to disconnect the fuel line to get fuel to flow into the carb every time you fill the tank, something is wrong. It seems like you have having issues with vapor lock or something.