Archive through October 10, 2013

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Tony,
My 149 refurbish will get all new wiring, with a fuse panel and a 4PDT relay to interlock and control stuff.

fuse panel, and on-board battery charger

I'm just now starting to install the cable for the wiring, have a 12C/12ga cable to run front to back in the tunnel.

Trying to find OEM style connectors, though..

 

[dfrisk]

TONY H. - I think I'd keep the PTO interlock switch connected, so you don't try to start the engine with the PTO engaged. The 782 has an elec PTO and the added amp draw reduces voltage and makes the engine that much harder to start and lowers voltage to the starter which increases amp draw. Starters don't like that.

 

[nbextermueller]

Scott, besides to obvious answer of "we'll, why not?", why all the fancy wiring and such, seems to me more things to go wrong and more expensive to replace and harder to diagnose.

Any input would be helpful.

 

[kide]

Dennis:
I put a second key switch on the dash to bypass the PTO interlock, so that when I don't have a belt on the PTO, I can leave it engaged (less wear on the throwout button).. My suspicion is that the later version of the mechanical PTO with the brake on it was to keep the PTO from spinning when there wasn't a belt on it. Even after a full rebuild, including a new bearing, mine has just enough drag to spin it when the PTO is disengaged..

 

[rrschmitt]

Tony Hoffman.

Welcome to the best CC forum. You have purchased one of the best Cub Cadets made and with some time, a little TLC and proper maintenance you will have an awesome garden tractor that will provide dependable service for another 30+ years.

Some of us here on the forum will encourage you to keep your 782 wiring OEM stock. We don't want you to be one of those "Previous Owners" who unnecessarily butchered the wiring because they didn't know or take the time to know what they were doing or get to the root cause of their problem. I know you said you are a Mechanical Designer for an Electrical Co., but many on here can attest to having to replace messed up wiring harnesses due PO's screwing them up. If your key switch is bad, replace with it an OEM switch. They are available and you can get one from one of the sponsors at the top of the page or your nearest CC dealer. It may cost a little more but will save you time trying to figure out what wires are which and what to jury rig to what.

On a 782 there is no reverse safety switch to stop the mower when going into reverse. That was not a requirement when 782's were made (at least IH built 782's). The safety switch under the seat is designed to kill the engine if the mower PTO switch is engaged and you get off the seat as your weight keeps the switch closed. You can quickly disable it pulling the connector off the switch and put a simple jumper wire between the two terminals. No cutting/splicing of wires required and it can be easily placed back to OEM configuration.

The brake pedal safety switch requires the pedal to be depressed for starting. It's prevents starting your cubbie in gear and helps keep youngsters from starting the tractor when they shouldn't be. This safety switch is also tied to the PTO switch to prevent starting the engine with the PTO switch in power on/engaged position. It is a good and sensible safety feature especially if you have young ones around or you are working on your CC to prevent accidents. The PTO switch has to be in the off position and brake pedal depressed to start the engine. Sometimes you may have to cycle the PTO switch on and off a time or two if your starter doesn't want to engage when you turn the key to the start position. You may have to replace the PTO switch if you have continued problems getting the starter to engage. There again it may cost a little but you are making an investment in a machine that will last for a long time and is much better quality than any box store special lawn tractor built today.

One final comment is the first thing you should do is read your operators manual, if you have it(Note: Manuals are available here on the forum), to better understand how your tractor works and its safety features. Second, clean the electrical terminals on your switches to ensure good contact. Years of dirt and moisture accummulate and eventually affect continuity. Also clean the ground wires where they attach to the frame. There are two, one at the battery and one common the engine/frame. Hope this helps.

 

[dfrisk]

GERRY - TWO KEY Switches? That would confuse the heck out of ME!

The 1X8/1X9's were the first model I had with the PTO lock-out switch, I think the 1X6/1X7's had it too... never been around them much. I guess that's why Kraig & I agree that the 72/1X4/1X5 are the best series of CC's.

The 70 I refurbished this spring didn't have ANY safety switches, the 72 only the switch on the clutch/brake pedal... But I can happily say they ALL work... all one of them!

The old 129 used to spit out it's fiber button on the PTO clutch about once every two years. I finally aligned the button with the center of the PTO clutch and put a worm gear hose clamp on the PTO lever shaft... the last fiber button was four yrs old and counting when I sold the tractor. I used to buy those fiber buttons 3-4 at a time... still have a couple left.

When I run one of the Cubbies without a PTO attachment I normally engage the PTO, but since I run them so much with the mower on doing other chores it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

 

[jbaker]

PTO safety switch added at serial 441194 during 1x8,9

 

[bjamison]

Quick question - electric PTO's on QL tractors. Should the PTO spin when the PTO is off, i.e. does the PTO have a brake like the later manual PTOs? No belt hooked up to mine when engine running and the PTO switch is off, but the PTO and is definitely spinning. When the tractor is off, it is not seized to the crank causing it to turn - if that's the right way to say it. Don't really want to stick my hand in there and see if I can stop it just to check...

Starting the next phase with the 1650. Need to get to know this tractor, so will be running it a fair amount. I am going to put the WF front blade I used on my 109 last year on this tractor for snow duty and I've got a newer CCC 50 inch deck that I need to swap out the center pulley to fit the belt on the 1650.

Speaking of front blades and pushing snow, do you folks have a preference for wheel weights? I gather the IH wheel weights are 26 lbs. Typically would one weight per side suffice or to you use two per side? Not looking for overkill weights - just a feel for what everyone is generally using.

Chains - I might spring for a set of 2 link chains for this tractor. Any of you folks leave/run chains on all year? Just curious on that one.

Also noticed the hydro lift - lifts, but doesn't appear to be going down - at least where the lift rod for a front blade would attach. I assume the lift powers both ways and there is a float setting somewhere. I've got a manual and need to re-read.

Another thing I need to have a look-see at is the amp gauge. It reads about one half hash mark positive when the switch is off and nearly pegs when the engine is running. Battery voltage is about 13.8, so I'm thinking the amp meter might be off a tad vs an overcharging condition.

 

[messary]

Didn't they make a change to the 782 wiring over the years? I'm not sure, and not at home to check, but I seem to remember they changed the way the safety switches worked at a certain serial #. Mine will not start if you don't press the brake in, but will run with no one on the seat until you turn on the pto

 

[mfrade]

Dennis:
I put a second key switch on the dash to bypass the PTO interlock, so that when I don't have a belt on the PTO, I can leave it engaged (less wear on the throwout button).. My suspicion is that the later version of the mechanical PTO with the brake on it was to keep the PTO from spinning when there wasn't a belt on it. Even after a full rebuild, including a new bearing, mine has just enough drag to spin it when the PTO is disengaged..

Gerry, it was my understanding that the brake was a gov't. mandate that the mower blades had to stop in so many seconds for safety. If that is in-correct, I'm sure someone will correct me / us!

 

[dtanner]

I don`t know why I did not take a picture of my mishap today.I was aerating a lawn today and was thrown off my 1512 . Pulling up a steep sloap with IH 2x 26ers each wheel, with chain on turf tires ;I was ridding on the right fender and seat to get traction for the grade.Now I was pulling the spikes in 3' and had 4 x26 lb IH weights in the tray to sink the spikes. Went fine for the first 20 ft and then we spun to a stop tearing a strip of sod off aerating . thought might as well back down. well the aerating tongue is short and with the long draw bar side ways it when . sliding but the tractor did not roll for the pin and the weight in the tray. well I was 6' down hill on my back . I rolled away . Wow fhew lol.(S@%T ):


My helper came running and we turned the front wheels down hill and she stood on the right foot rest and down on it`s wheels the tractor when with a touch on the hydro.I had my 42" blade on the front and that kept the tractor from sliding.the left corner had dug a hole also.

I should know better .

I could have been crushed by a 1512 !

 

[wshytle]

Don-

Would you consider yourself "accident prone"?...I would. That makes two now and three strikes you're out.

Be Careful!!!!

 

[kostendorf]

Don, So what's next maybe some night plowing???

 

[dtanner]

Well I did that hill before with the tractor. but I had 75 lb plastic weights and the an IH 26 on each rear wheel with my tru powers. never had a problem. Things happen so fast ; it was over before it started lol.

Wayne

Hauled 5 tons of Cull carrots to sell to the hunters around here. I used a dump trailer and took the 140 mile run . hear a funny scrunch noise every few minutes. so Loaded down I said that noise can`t be something serious.truck did wonder hauling the full dump trailer. Got home and unloaded and when to see what was up with my Diesel truck. The shop jacked it up under the diver side ball joint. the inner wheel bearing was so shot he would not let me back the truck from his shop. He said that wheel could fall off anytime.I was so shocked . The wheel bearing was 348.00 $

 

[hydroharry]

Don - boy are you lucky! Please make sure you take Wayne's advice and be careful out there. I know you said you were using different tires and weights, but differences in the soil condition also effects it - you just have to be really careful, especially when there is any slope involved.

Bill J - no your electric PTO should not spin when the PTO switch is off. No it does not have a brake. Your electric PTO is an electro-magnetic clutch. I believe it's basically like the A/C clutch on your car/truck. When you throw the switch a field coil is energize causing a magnetic field engages the PTO pulley. When you turn the switch off the electro-magnet is de-energized and the PTO pulley is released to spin freely. I suspest since your engine was pulley your PTO clutch is out of tolerance. Service manual will show you how and where to check the clearances and should be fairly easy fix (you'll have to remove your grill - would have been easier without the lower grill housing mounted on the tractor). Just be glad your PTO works. If it didn't the field coils are expensive to replace if you can find just the coil, and the entire clutch is EXPENSIVE to replace.

On your wheel weights, you've got the wider tires so I would definitely want at least 2 weights per wheel. And for chains, if you're gonna be running on asphalt/concrete I'd use 4 link spaced chains. That way when you're running/riding it's chain-tire-chain-tire. It's a little bouncy but you get used to it, and it gives you a bite and less spinning. If you use 2 link spacing you are always running/riding on chain and it doesn't bite into asphalt/concrete so you will spin the tires/chains (but speed is infinitely variable with the hydro speed control lever). Also, riding on chains all the time on asphalt/concrete will wear them out quick.

As far as the hydro lift going down, the rockshaft on the side of the tractor frame won't rotate unless there is something to pull it (like having the front blade installed), or having the mowing deck sub-frame connected to the lift arms under the tractor. The only other time the rockshaft will rotate down is if you have the linkage set up for "down pressure". I don't recommend the down pressure as it will just ruin or break the roll pin in the rockshaft or the lift arms.
Sounds like you're pretty close to discovering your 1650 is one of the finest machines out there.

Mike F - there you go putting holes where they don't belong. You probably just needed to fine tuned your turn buckle and the PTO would have stopped.

 

[twilie]

Dtanner, an IH tractor would not have done that. Besides I don't think Charlie allows discussion of non IH tractors here. You trying to get us shut down again? You think Charlie shutting down the site had anything any thing to do with the Govt. shut down? Just wonderin.

 

[bjamison]

Don T - glad you're unscathed. Please go back here https://www.ihcubcadet.com/forum/messages/4/263384.html?1380900280 and re-read the buttox/crack and seat edge position comments. Also were you using the hold the arm out to the side method with a barbell weight in hand - or as others pointed out, perhaps a beer...

Harry B - good info on the chains. I've got a set of 4 link chains, but for whatever reason thought the 2 link were better. I do like the looks of the 2 link chains better and just want my top of the line, most powerful ever (according to IH's brochure) modern Cub Cadet 1650 (even with a less powerful 14 hp in it) to look very snazzy if and when I ever park it beside a nice new Scout II...

 

[mfrade]

"Mike F - there you go putting holes where they don't belong. You probably just needed to fine tuned your turn buckle and the PTO would have stopped."

Harry, why do you assume my PTO is out of adjustment? That's silly as my 73 doesn't have a PTO brake!

The dealer who sold IH Cub Cadets locally told me why IH used the PTO brake design. The gov't. required attachments to stop within so many seconds when released from being engaged. Push mowers still have this feature today even. All in the name of safety...

 

[tkhoffman]

Back Up- Cam Strobe light.. Really?

I was able to look a few minutes last night. Whoever tinkered with what was left of teh harness after the tractor was stolen. Did only the most basic stuff. He hooked up the Power to the Coil and the Alternator. That's it. He bypassed all the safety stuff and just got the tractor to run. the PTO switch does not work because there are no wires to it at all.
Probably wont get fanvy with a Fuse Block, probably the inline Spade type fuses for the three switches I will need. If the tractor ends up being reliable and useful, I may expand on that.

 

[digger]

I see the BOSS took control of the new machine.
I guess Tony will have to buy one for himself now!