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Archive through March 23, 2014
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hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Jerry G - I'm not an expert on the internals of the engine, but the short answer to your question is no you cannot use your original dipstick. The long answer follows below:
Since you're saying your dipstick hits the balance gears it sounds as tho your replacement 14hp K321 short block with balance gears, would have originally been for use in a CC Model 147. The dip stick on a 147 was on the cam cover but the "oil fill" tube was in the top of the block (just like the non-balance gear block used for a 1450). The 147 version engine used a stubby dip stick insert in the top since it was only to be used as a "oil fill tube" (not checking oil level). The dipstick in the cam cover was used for checking the oil level but to small to use as an oil fill. If you insert a long dip stick in the top tube it hits the balance gears just as you say.
I hate to say you can't use your replacement short block in a 1450, but you have no place to put a dipstick. You can't use the cam cover dipstick since your 1450 has side panels that would hit the dipstick.
You have 2 choices that I see. One is to remove the balance gears (preferred) and use the dipstick tube and dipstick from your old block (assuming the tube fits into the hole in the top of the block), or another possible alternative is to find a Kohler block that uses a "side hole" in the block for the dipstick tube. I believe it's more common on a 16hp block. The tube insert is on the side of the block just behind the starter. If you go to this style you'll have to drill a hole in the block in the correct location. Seems to me that drilling a hole in the block would also introduce small pieces of metal and you can't be certain they are all out if you have all the other parts still in it (like the crank, rod, cam and balance gears). Before I'd do this I'd just remove the balance gears and use the top hole for your dipstick tube.
Doug B - not everything in that pic is for mowing. I see something at the far end of the line that looks like it crawls around. What might that be?
Since you're saying your dipstick hits the balance gears it sounds as tho your replacement 14hp K321 short block with balance gears, would have originally been for use in a CC Model 147. The dip stick on a 147 was on the cam cover but the "oil fill" tube was in the top of the block (just like the non-balance gear block used for a 1450). The 147 version engine used a stubby dip stick insert in the top since it was only to be used as a "oil fill tube" (not checking oil level). The dipstick in the cam cover was used for checking the oil level but to small to use as an oil fill. If you insert a long dip stick in the top tube it hits the balance gears just as you say.
I hate to say you can't use your replacement short block in a 1450, but you have no place to put a dipstick. You can't use the cam cover dipstick since your 1450 has side panels that would hit the dipstick.
You have 2 choices that I see. One is to remove the balance gears (preferred) and use the dipstick tube and dipstick from your old block (assuming the tube fits into the hole in the top of the block), or another possible alternative is to find a Kohler block that uses a "side hole" in the block for the dipstick tube. I believe it's more common on a 16hp block. The tube insert is on the side of the block just behind the starter. If you go to this style you'll have to drill a hole in the block in the correct location. Seems to me that drilling a hole in the block would also introduce small pieces of metal and you can't be certain they are all out if you have all the other parts still in it (like the crank, rod, cam and balance gears). Before I'd do this I'd just remove the balance gears and use the top hole for your dipstick tube.
Doug B - not everything in that pic is for mowing. I see something at the far end of the line that looks like it crawls around. What might that be?
When I ordered the short block they said all 1450 needed balance gears to reduce vibration. Since it did vib so bad, I said OK The block they sent me was identical to the old one, but has balance gears are blocking the dip stick. Is the dip stick hole in a different place or what. flustered
And Thanks
And Thanks
Thanks so much guys. Our 127 has the dip stick in the side although it is only a 10 HP. I'm not sure on the 128, as I did not go down to look. How can you remove the balance gears. Can you take off the ring clip and slide them off without pulling the crank? If you can, that won't be to much of a problem I'll send them back with the core and ask for a refund.
Thanks again so much
Jerry
Thanks again so much
Jerry
Harry B. here I thought your were blind in one eye and couldn't see out of the other. The one that "crawls" is a magnatrac MT1800. This was its first weekend back home after I rebuilt the front end loader. This next weekend it will make a trip out to the cabin for some land clearing
Jerry,
I'll throw in my two cents worth on this discussion. I have to agree with Harry, Bill and Wayne. Balance gears aren't really a good idea; as they are known to air-condition a Kohler K-series block. I would agree with the recommendation to remove them.
The Kohler AQS engine that the 1450, along with the rest of the Quietline series that used Kohler engines, did not have balance gears in them. I don't know why they were eliminated for this series, but personally, I'm glad they are gone. The top dipstick was put there to allow for the side panels. Those panels, as Harry alluded, are an integral part of the Quietline principle.
Will the engine vibrate? Probably. You will need to adjust and fine-tune your ISO mounts. To adjust them, you need to tighten and loosen the mounting bolts to find the points of least vibration. this is a process. (It took me nearly a year to get my 1250 to settle down after replacing the ISO mounts.) Additionally, David Kirk (Kirk Engines, one of the above sponsors,) sells a crankshaft balance kit that supposedly replaces the balance gears and works better to smooth out the engine. Others can attest to how well the crank shaft balancer works.
All the best to you and your project.
Brian Wittman
I'll throw in my two cents worth on this discussion. I have to agree with Harry, Bill and Wayne. Balance gears aren't really a good idea; as they are known to air-condition a Kohler K-series block. I would agree with the recommendation to remove them.
The Kohler AQS engine that the 1450, along with the rest of the Quietline series that used Kohler engines, did not have balance gears in them. I don't know why they were eliminated for this series, but personally, I'm glad they are gone. The top dipstick was put there to allow for the side panels. Those panels, as Harry alluded, are an integral part of the Quietline principle.
Will the engine vibrate? Probably. You will need to adjust and fine-tune your ISO mounts. To adjust them, you need to tighten and loosen the mounting bolts to find the points of least vibration. this is a process. (It took me nearly a year to get my 1250 to settle down after replacing the ISO mounts.) Additionally, David Kirk (Kirk Engines, one of the above sponsors,) sells a crankshaft balance kit that supposedly replaces the balance gears and works better to smooth out the engine. Others can attest to how well the crank shaft balancer works.
All the best to you and your project.
Brian Wittman
hydroharry
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Jerry G - have a look at FAQ No. 92 in Charlie's FAQ section. Here's a link - http://cubfaq.com/balancegearremoval.html
(The part I don't like is having to use a hammer and chisel).
By the way, would you mind sending me an e-mail where you got the short block. I like to keep track of where you can get them.
Doug B - hey I caught you note to Don T "just a little east of you - ya right, like 3500 miles.
And as for my eyes - heck they used to call me Ole Eagle Eye (I did say "used to").
I thought it was interesting the MT 1800 seems to be correct IHCC colors so I thought maybe you might have been doing your own innovation work.
(The part I don't like is having to use a hammer and chisel).
By the way, would you mind sending me an e-mail where you got the short block. I like to keep track of where you can get them.
Doug B - hey I caught you note to Don T "just a little east of you - ya right, like 3500 miles.
And as for my eyes - heck they used to call me Ole Eagle Eye (I did say "used to").
I thought it was interesting the MT 1800 seems to be correct IHCC colors so I thought maybe you might have been doing your own innovation work.
Quick question on a carb for a 1450. My uncle came over and brought his 1450 - says it wont start well and idle until warm - wanted me to rebuild carb.
First thing I found was the throttle shaft is sloppy. has had the kit (bushing) installed already. took it apart, cleaned it and threw a rebuild kit in it. Now - got to playing around with another throttle shaft (with busted screws in it) and it fits nice and tight - the original throttle shaft was worn badly. got to looking on the auction website and found a throttle shaft w lever 47 144 35s and looks to be correct - but can anybody verify that for me? it looks like it could be several different shafts.. grr. I know it's a #30 carb, but im not sure if I could have taken the top lever tab off the shaft like some of them show. I just didn't look that close.
First thing I found was the throttle shaft is sloppy. has had the kit (bushing) installed already. took it apart, cleaned it and threw a rebuild kit in it. Now - got to playing around with another throttle shaft (with busted screws in it) and it fits nice and tight - the original throttle shaft was worn badly. got to looking on the auction website and found a throttle shaft w lever 47 144 35s and looks to be correct - but can anybody verify that for me? it looks like it could be several different shafts.. grr. I know it's a #30 carb, but im not sure if I could have taken the top lever tab off the shaft like some of them show. I just didn't look that close.
John B.
You need the KH-25-757-16-S
The KH-47-144-35 is for magnum engines/carbs.
You need the KH-25-757-16-S
The KH-47-144-35 is for magnum engines/carbs.
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Charlie - I thought you used to have those throttle shafts. Did they all go to that Big Kohler Yard in the sky?
John B - that top tab on the shaft is brazed on some of the shafts. I believe you can heat it and remove it. Then you have to braze onto the replacement shaft. I had it done once is all. The other times the bushing fixed everything up nice and tight.
John B - that top tab on the shaft is brazed on some of the shafts. I believe you can heat it and remove it. Then you have to braze onto the replacement shaft. I had it done once is all. The other times the bushing fixed everything up nice and tight.
