Archive through March 18, 2013

[thoffman]

Dennis,
Even the museum pices can be wrong.
I remember going the Henry Ford Museum and seeing a Farmall regular painted red.

 

[dfrisk]

TOM - An F-20, yes, there were a few red ones built after the paint color change in 1936. A "Regular", nope, not ANY, by 6 to 12 yrs!

A lot of Regulars did get repainted red back in the old days to make them seem like the newer F-20's after 1936, same way M's, SM's, 400's, H's, SH's, 300's all got the grill & side panels painted white to match the 350/450's.

The guy who painted it probably saw the red paint with the dark grey under it and thought the grey was primer and painted it red. Too bad he didn't do a little research.

The Henry Ford museum is an interesting place to visit. Wife & I were there about 30 yrs ago and we were going thru the "Transportation exhibit", cars, trucks, trains, and airplanes. One of which was the "Spirit of St. Louis". I'd just read something in the local Moline, IL paper about THE original Spirit Ryan monoplane hanging from the rafters in the Smithsonian, so I nudged the wife and said, "Hey, Look, there's the plane Jimmy Stewart Flew in the movie, "Spirit of St. Louis". The lady ahead of us was busy reading the little placard in front of the plane and when she was done she looked over at me like, "How the HECK did You know that??!?!??" The article I read said something about the plane in the Henry Ford museum was a replica.

Takes at least two days to do justice to the museum & Greenfield Village, three would be better.

 

[hydroharry]

Bill - I tried to indicate something happened with my pic colors. The actual yellar and white paint on the tractor is correct. The Federal Yellow is the CCC yellow correct for the IH era, and the White is IH935 from Case/IH Iron Guard. I do have to admit to not using IH Black available from some of the old standby IHCC dealers.
I use the black on the foot treads since black shows every spit of dust and dirt and forces me to keep the tractor clean.

And as for the engine being black, I agree with Denny - these old Kohlers just run better painted black. There must be some scientific basis for it as well since I know different colors dissipate heat at different rates but you'd have to know the paint thickness, and probably end up with some formula showing the heat held within the black but dissipated faster thru the silver on the head which is forced cooled by the flywheel fan blowing air across the silver head and silver muffler, resulting in better firing, combustion and exhaust, as a result of the cooling differences. Do you agree Denny?

Kraig - Oh Great One, Keeper of the Photos - any chance your archive might have pics of my 169 prior to the digital fading in my copies?

 

[bjames]

I can't give you many points for 'trying' to use the correct paint. Perhaps you had the ratio wrong and as far as black being better on Kohler engines, IH didn't think so and thus gets a major deduction in restoration points if it is a correct Spec# 13 fin engine.

 

[hydroharry]

Bill - there was no mixing of the paint. I used it straight out of the cans. And as for the black, you might be forgetting IH went to all black engines with the full enclosure side panels (as well as some other black components). And as for being a majore deduction in restoration points, that's really not correct. It's only a one point deduction for an incorrect color, so out of 110 starting points I still get a 100 point score (and besides, you can't score based on pictures, it's only done with live inspection).

 

[kmcconaughey]

A given photo is going to look different on every different monitor... Unless your monitor is perfectly calibrated it's doubtful that the color would look correct. Add in the digital camera's calibration or the lighting used for the camera digital or film. Then if it was a film camera, the film speed and the developing. Then you'd have to scan that photo in and the settings of the scanner could alter it. No way to get a perfect color with all the variables...

Having stated that disclaimer.

Hydro, How about a few side by side photos with Jim Chabot's 169?

 

[hydroharry]

Kraig - Oh Great One, Keeper of the Photos. Well thanks a BIG BUNCH for that explanation AND for posting those twin pics. Did you notice I'm standing in the back ground of the top pic? That's me by the blasting cabinet - you can see me up to the top of my shoulders (hehe). I don't know why my air cleaner base and cover is missing in the 2nd pic (must have been doing an adjustment). You can see my red PTO engagement button in the 3rd pic. Thanks again - I'll keep copies.

 

[dfrisk]

HARRY - Yes, most things that are designed to DISSIPATE Heat are painted BLACK or if not subject to corrosion, left as bare metal. It doesn't take much to significantly reduce heat transfer. A few thousandsth of an inch of paint, a little dirt, dust, grease, grunge, REALLY slows up heat transfer. Company I worked for 20 yrs ago had a customer whose new ice cream making machine was down 20-25% in output in gallons per hour after only 4-6 weeks in operation. What our engineers found out was that he was using synthetic oil in his ammonia refridgeration system, and the condensate water was mixing with the synthetic acids in the oil and causing the pure nickle heat exchanger tube to slightly rust/corrode on the outside, which let them hold an extra .020"-.030" of oil which "Insulated" the heat exhanger. TWENTY PLUS PERCENT REDUCTION in HEAT FLOW from .030" of OIL!

Read Dave Kirk's Killer Kohler write-ups. He even ports the cooling fins around the OUTSIDE of the intake & exh. valve ports to improve cooling air flow. There's a joint between two sections of coreing around there and Kohler had terrible mis-alignment of the cooling fins, it's hard to clean them up but well worth the effort! Greatly reduces the sticking exh. valve problem.

BILL - reason IH painted the engines in early CC's yellow was because the TRACTOR the engine was in was painted yellow, and they were NOT going to mask off the engine. Finally during the 1X8/1X9 series they changed their assembly line around and installed BLACK engines after the frame was painted and all engines were black after that time. The engines were painted black by KOHLER.... so they must have had a reason for painting them black... Don't ya suppose?

Go ahead and paint your engine ANY color you want! Just don't go claiming to know WHY IH did something until you actually know the facts.

Far as a 13-fin 341 being correct in a 169/1650, well yes, some DID have 13-fin blocks, many, maybe even most didn't. Art A. hasn't had much success getting people to respond to his request for info on that matter. And the truth really is, in tractors 40 yrs old, many of the original 13-fin blocks have been replaced with 12-fin service replacement engines by now so unless somebody bought their 169/1650 brand new and still has it 40 yrs later we'll never really know how many 13-fin blocks there were. The ONLY advantage of the 13-fin block is that it has thicker cyl. walls and can be bored to a 4.00" bore from the stock 3.750" plus the typical +.010", +.020", +.030" O/S. The cam, carb, rod, crankshaft... all other things effecting HP potential are ALL the same.

 

[bjames]

I'm just joking, lighten up. But now I see more deductions.

 

[hydroharry]

Bill - lighten up? Geez, I don't have the wheel weights mounted on mine, I run with about 1/4 of gas, and I don't think there is anything else I can remove (cept maybe the little extra air I run in the tires but that can't weigh to much

.
Ooh no - and you're seeing more deductions? The number on the tail light lenses don't count since I'm the one who discovered which ones are correct and I only told those on this thread.

Dennis - yes I'm gonna have to read up on David Kirk's Killer Kohler. Sounds very interesting.

 

[bjames]

You really need to make an Excel spreadsheet explaining the 110 point scoring system. Incorrect paint is only -1 point? If one shows up in jd green it should be at least a 50 point deduction.

 

[hydroharry]

Bill - I'm not a judge and they are the only ones with the scoring sheets. I just know some of the criteria details. As for someone showing up in jd green, well they wouldn't be there long. Have you seen this pic before? I've been around a few jd green units and they just end up in pieces.

 

[fcurrier]

Gaining. Carb will come off again to install the throttle shaft bushing that Charlie surprised me with. I had to use the "thick" carb-to-block gasket (which I think Greg Edwards disapproves of) to get the carb bowl to clear Dave's breather cover.

Dave's Killer Kohler is an AQS with a different governor linkage setup. I set the linkage-to-block attachment point out a couple washers, but will have a problem getting the breather tube to clear. I'm thinking of turning the breather cover 180*. Any objections?

Happy Easter, everyone! (Which reminds me - there's no blood on Shultzie's bunny because he/she hasn't departed this world yet, She/he is just resting or knocked out. Remember, we're becoming a kinder, more gentle (read Wussified) nation.

 

[hydroharry]

Frank - I think you got everything mixed up. Doesn't David Kirk's breather outlet fitting go in the vertical position? I'm certain I remember that. His tubing goes down and exists just under the frame or along the block so the oil/smoke doesn't build up on the side of the block. I think if you rotated it then you wouldn't have the clearance issue with the carb float bowl (but it would still be close). And if you're gonna put in that throttle shaft, then you have to removed those dang screws in the butterfly again so lets be careful. And why is that bracket for your choke cable turned horizontal. It's supposed to be vertical, and then it won't interfere with the breather cover but will be close. And Shultzie's bunny is over in the garage, but he ain't jumping around yet.

 

[fcurrier]

Harry:

My bad- - but I don't think I'm too mixed up on this particular point.

 

[fcurrier]

Installing throttle shaft bushing with 4" bench vice/press:

 

[thoffman]

Frank,
Isn't that a overkill?

 

[hydroharry]

Frank - geez, you're right (and I'm wrong again). How about point that brass fitting downward just a little towards the coil? Then your hose could run nearly vertical and not interfere with the choke cable and I hope not the throttle cable, and it should clear the dipstick as well. I realize it will be close to the nut on the breather cover but you should still be able to acces the nut from the left side or slightly underneath it.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Here's how I did mine:

 

[hydroharry]

Kraig - Oh Great One Keeper of the Photos - you know a pic is worth 10,000 words, and you just saved me 9,900. You're the GREATEST!!!