Archive through July 16, 2012

[dfrisk]

BILL - Something else you can do if all other things fail getting the PTO off. Just use a 2 or 3 jaw gear puller to pull the clutch off. You'll have to put the jaws on the V-belt groove, and since they're tapered, you'll have to clamp or somehow tie the jaws together. The puller will bottom the center post the fiber button pushes on, and that will hit the end of the crankshaft, and you'll pull the whole PTO & pilot bearing with it's eccentric locking collar off in one piece. Then you can put it in a vice and really get to work on it.

I forget which PTO it is, maybe the one on the 72, but I had some buggered up set screws I had to drill out, and it now has 5/16" set screws instead of 1/4 inch.

 

[jsalatino]

Bill...... Dennis is right , i used a 3 jaw puller and took the strap off a ratchet tiedown to wrap mine, ran it through the loop on the hook and it worked pretty good for me. took a few times to do it but it did keep the jaws from slippin off. I was by myself and it was so tight I used a impact wrench also. good luck

 

[bjamison]

Making things harder than they need to be - I sucessfully got the two set screws out - after which I discovered these are the ones at the rear of the PTO - next to the engine block...

There are two of these and they came right out with a bit of heat.

I was looking for 3 locations of set screws and finally found them. I couldn't see the PTO set screws at the front of the pulley because the holes were packed with dirt and smoothed over like they didn't exist. After some poking, I knocked the dirt out of the holes.

I think I've got the dirt out of the set screw holes, but I'm not sure there are set screws in there. I have to reach down easily over 1/2" before I make contact with anything.

Question is - with two set screws down the hole, how close to the pulley OD surface to they come? What size allen wrench should I be using to get these set screws out? Is it possible for the PTO to operate without the set screws? It slips bad when I am trying to run the mowing deck.

I noticed the PTO has two pressure springs stacked on each other - which I thought I read somewhere was used on 14 or 16 hp tractors. This 109 is 10 hp. The pulley also has remnants of white paint vs. yellow. On a 109, would the pto pulley have been yellow?

 

[fcurrier]

Bill: Clean those 3 newfound holes really good, if it means using Q-Tips and a penetrating oil. There's 2 set screws in each hole. The first one out will be blunt and the second one has a pointy end. 1/2" down isn't too far for them to be. What happens is the pointy set screws kind of slide in behind the bearing, which is locked in place, which holds the PTO Clutch in place. The blunt set screws hold the pointy ones in place. Getting those 6 out is one of the less pleasurable jobs you'll do this week. Good luck!

 

[jbaker]

Bill on a added note don't ever count on just two set screws, I have found ptos with as many as 3 and as little as 0 in one hole. They came oem with 2 but you never know over time whats been added or removed.

also I don't think the duel spring was engine specific

 

[kmcconaughey]

Bill, Mud Daubers filled those screw holes. Here's a cross section view of the PTO. I highlighted the set screws.

 

[hydroharry]

Bill J - hey thanks for posting that pic of the ISO-mount bolt. Now if I saw a stamping "WP" on the head I would know for certain it was an original bolt. I'm hoping we hear back soom from Brian with some good news.

Hey good luck getting your PTO set screws out. As Charlie noted a T-handle allen wrench is really best and it does need to be sharp. Hope you don't have to go the heat route, and certainly hope you don't have to drill them. I don't know what type of drill bit Dennis used but drilling set screws out takes something really strong. Use loads of PB Blaster and make sure the threads are as clean as possible. You might even want to run a new set screw in and out to help make sure the threads are clean. And don't study that cross-sectional posted by Kraig to long or you'll get a headache trying to figure it out. Once you do get the PTO off the cross-sections will make alot more sense - but until you do I believe you'll find it hard to understand.

Kraig - Oh Great One, Keeper of the Photos - thanks for posting the cross-sectional but I really wish there was a way to remove it. It just gives me a headache every time I look at it, and I do understand it. One thing odd to me is why IH references "Ball Bearing", when they could have just said Bearing. (Lets hear it from the Engineers and Document Writers now. Maybe my headache will go away).

 

[bjamison]

OK - I took a tiny drill bit and by hand drilled around trying to find the set screws and I think I did. There is definately a lot of crud in those holes. The engine is in the tractor and I'm almost thinking this would be easier with the engine out. Certainly if I were to use a puller, the engine would have to either be out or unbolted and tilted-up.

However, being the impatient man, I reassembled everything and put the new deck belt on, tightened everything-up to see if the clutch would hold as is. Maybe if it ain't broke, I don't need to fix it - at least right now.

New belt fit perfectly (thinks Charlie) and with a new tensioner U-bolt, I was in business. The tractor started on the first crank after setting a couple of weeks. I had set the deck height before trying to get started and off I went.

This is the first time (other than for a quick spin around the yard), I've put the 109 to work - or any other IH Cub Cadet as my 1650 is in pieces...

So I was mowing and getting a great cut, very even side to side and looking good. At some point I got to a place where I need to back-up. When I did, I saw a little cloud of smoke rise off the left hand side of the tractor engine area.

I'm thinking my new belt is smoking due to a soon to be seized deck pulley as they are noisy. I parked the tractor and checked the belt - all good. In fact - the clutch seems to be pulling the deck just fine, making me wonder if I really need to fool with the PTO in the first place - at least right now. It may be good enough to wait to be a winter project - but I digress...

So I re-fired the tractor and off I go again. The tractor sounds great, the only time I can see it strain is when I'm mowing up a semi-steep hill (which I expect with a 10 hp engine on a 39 year old tractor). So I see the smoke again when I stop, get off the tractor - this time with it running. Definately not the PTO or a belt/spindle. The tractor's got smoke coming from the rear of the engine and being blown out under the carburator area where I'm pointing in the pic below.

While I'm standing there (and the sun is going down a bit so it ain't so bright outside now) I look down at the exhaust and there is a 1/4 hole in the top of it - see the pic below.

Through the hole and inside the muffler I can see a goodly bit of it and it's glowing red. It's very hot in there, but the exterior of the muffler is not glowing. I know that one time I had another color tractor with I believe a stuck exhaust valve and the muffler would glow red like a stop light. From what I could tell, the outside of the 109's muffler was black and the inside only was red. The pipe connecting the muffer to the engine exhaust was not glowing - it was black like the rest of the muffler.

Soooo - wonder what's going on? I don't think I've got stuck valve symptons from a performance standpoint. The PTO/deck seems to be doing OK. Question is - where's the smoke coming from? Should I be concerned? Could it be just old oil burning off the surface of the engine after setting in a barn for years? Maybe it's an old mouse nest in the engine cowling frying. Maybe there is a crank seal weaping oil or a crankcase breather venting.

Any ideas on PTO, rumbling spindles, hole in the exhaust, smoke out the back of the engine would be most appreciated!!!!

 

[bjamison]

Hydro Harry - the bolts appear to have WP on the head.

Just to keep me out of trouble and covering all the bases, here is a pic of the nut too...

 

[ljones]

Bill J, The smoke is proably coming from the crankcase breather, my 122 does it sometimes.