Archive through February 27, 2013

[dreinhardt]

Sorry I forgot to attach the image.
I guess thats a double sorry thanks
<font color="0000ff">Yea and you forgot to hit the ENTER BUTTON when you added the picture.</font>

}

 

[lpalma]

David R,

Your heat shield is in nice shape,no crack above the decal.What does your dipstick look like.Mine has the small opening,knurled knob.It also has the stubby oil filler plug thingy on the S/G side,but my K321 on the 147 has the larger dip stick hole on the cam and no tube on the S/G side.

Jeremiah...
on the 7,8 hp floats that I have seen there is no tab to adjust the drop.It hits the main needle jet orifice.On the 26 and 30 carters I have never seen a tab on it like you show.

Picked up these lights this weekend.The black ones I had,I just wanted to see if they were the same .

Charlie,
I prolly need some of those spacers that you posted awhile back.

Did you ever see anything like this.Wonder what this guy was thinking.Here is how the p.o. tried to remove the pto screws on the 147.

 

[slent]

I posted a question back on the 22nd regarding the trouble I was having separating the ‘Clutch and brake pedal arm’ from the ‘Clutch and brake pedal assembly’ (shaft) on my 126 being torn down for the sand blaster. I wanted to thank Terry Davis for his response.
I have another question. This one is regarding the grease fittings on the front axle. There are three, one at each end and one at the pivot. One of them is threaded into the axle, and was easily removed. I’m guessing that one was a repair at some point. The other two are a different story. They do not have a hex on them for a wrench. One turns easily, but will not come out of the hole. The other is still tight in the hole, and won’t turn (yet). I’m guessing these were originally pressed into a tapered hole? I’d like some input before I just drill them out and tap the holes.
Thanks in advance.

 

[dschwandt]

Lewis, Thanks much for the paper work on the cab.

The way they say to mount the w/shield ain't gonna happen!! For one thing, how would you get the hood open w/o folding the top up and back for clearance. Plus, all thet weight plus the down pressure from drawing the whole contraption together, with (gulp) a cable of all things, and tight enough to keep it in place sure would spell trouble for the hood and fiberglas dash I would think.

Looks like it's gonna be time for plan B here!! And fab up a support from the front foot rest frame braces upwards to meet the w/s frame and fill in the gaps w/fabric and velcro/elastic. I better tell Carolyn to get her sewing machine oiled up!! Yeah....right!!!
Dave S

 

[dreinhardt]

Lewis Thanks I found the 127 last winter over an embankment about 150 feet off the road in the snow. It had a broken front spindle and driveshaft. But other then that it is in good shape even the seat is decent. Pictures to follow. I have a 149 and it is the same as your 147 regarding the dipsticck.

 

[jchamberlin]

Lewis "Do-Dah" Palmer: The "second tab" to set the float drop may have been an innovation developed as the Kohler K-series matured. Reviewing the data at the front of Kohler publication TP-2379 which I used as a guide during my rebuild, I noticed that it covers the AQS versions of the motor which didn't appear until the advent of the Quiet Line of Cub Cadets. The manual also covers the K341, which I don't think was available until the end of the 1x8/9 series, although some 169 owners may correct me.

I noticed too that the depictions in the manual appear to show the later style of float, with the second, "drop" tab and the oblong, inwardly formed "curls" that grip the float's hinge pin.

The manual is also careful to note, on p. 6.10 column A, that the hinge pin's "towers" must be checked for proper clearance, and filed down if necessary.

Text:

Graphic:

So, you may be correct, the "drop" tab may not have been included in the earlier float designs. I thought the second tab had broken off my float, but perhaps it was never there to begin with!

It would be interesting to compare the text and graphics of the TP-2379 with an earlier version of the Kohler Service Manual, before the AQS was introduced in the Quiet Line.

Edit: All the the modifications point to the fact that the float getting hung up was a problem that the Kohler (Carter) engineers felt they needed to address. I'm still not sure of all the reasons the design was modified. I know that my float was bottoming out on the bowl, but I've also had float/flooding problems because the "needle" (of the needle/seat valve) was getting cocked and hanging up. I never considered the towers as a source of interference.

 

[jharder]

Scott,
I have never drilled out a pressed in fitting. I always guessed they were to hard to drill. That being said all the pressed in one I took out were broke off. If you are careful with a small sharp punch or chisel you can crack them and pick them out. It may take some time to get it all out. Then just drill and tap. Hope this helps. Jim

 

[jchamberlin]

Scott: The metal for the grease fittings is fairly soft. I think I got mine out by gripping them with pliers or vise grips and prying up with claw hammer. What's that they say, "Grip it and rip it"

 

[hydroharry]

Paul B - thanks for the info on Znd. I guess when all else fails I should read pages 2 and 3 of my Tc-157 parts book. (Well not necessarily when everything fails based on the following).

Wayne - I don't have a TC-113 for the NF tractors so I could only check my TC-157. I looked at the K321 head used in the 149 and per the parts book you'd have a hard time keeping the head on. It lists Qty 5, studs, washers, spacers, and nuts, and Qty 1 tooth lock, but no bolts, and none are noted Znd. So then I jumped over to the K321 used on the 1450 and wouldn't ya know it, it shows Qty 7 hex head cap screws, Znd type, but wait, Qty 1 Stud, cylinder head. Seems to me you need a total combination of Qty 9 so neither of these is really very good. But read on.

Jeremiah - on your carb thing and the extra tab. If you review the various IH Cub Cadet "Engine" Service manuals you'll see an explosion pic of the carb, and a reassembly section that refers to checking and setting the float level but no reference to checking and setting any float drop. Most of the IH Cub Cadet "Engine" Service is included in the complete Service Manual for the appropriate IH Cub Cadet model series, but for some reason Charlie has conveniently ommited the GSS-1465-B, April 1984, Service Manual, which is specific to the 1x8/9 seris, the QL series, the Compact Loader 4120, and surprisingly the Model 1282. Maybe because it's dated April 1984 Charlie didn't think it would apply, but it is the IH manual (although my copy has the grey colored cover with the IH Logo and shows "Blue Ribbon Service" so it's a reprint - which I got from CCC sometime in the early 90's). Jeremiah, if your pc can handle the Service Manual downloades from the Manuals thread (mine hangs up alot) then you can see a section on the Carb details and how it has limited info, and most likely the float that only has the single tab.

So there ya have it - when all else fails read the IH CC parts catalog, then the IH CC Service Manual, and then the Kohler Service Manual, if you want to be really confused. Actually the IH Engine Service Manual excludes alot of the Kohler details that don't apply to Cub Cadets, so it's really a better quick reference.

 

[hydroharry]

Don T - ok, I'm stumped. I've gone back over your posts and I see you question the float and discussion of how to test it. What I don't see is a post where you say, yup, turned out to be a bad float. Can you fill me in? Seems others must have read something I don't see. Or at least tell me where/when it's posted.

 

[dtanner]

Harry Bursell

I do think the float is bad , but I have not tested it yet. I will later today when I get back from getting parts for my 1512.Valve cover gasket $15.02.

 

[jchamberlin]

Harry, Good Morning. The IH CC manuals I have all came from the Manuals section of this site. In the case of my Model 149, the Service Manual I downloaded was IH publication no. GSS-1464 Revision 2 dated September 1979 for IH CC models 86, 108, 109, 128, 129, 149, 169, 800, 1000, 1200, 1250, 1450, & 1650 Chassis & IH Equipment (which consisted of the mower, the blower, and the 1A tiller). There is nothing in the GSS-1464r2 manual about servicing the engine, only its removal and installation; hence my resort to the Kohler Service Manuals available from their site. The Operator's Manual (available for download in the Manuals Section for "Tractors and Rotary Mowers" Models 86, 108, 128, 129, 149, and 169 "Serial No. 507,000 and above", publication no. 1 084 322 R1. Rev. 1. 6-74) does not include anything about servicing the carburetor. So I was using the the best information available to me at the time.

For the Model 149, I did order the Engine Service manual you describe from Binder Books, publication no. GSS1465-1 W/Revision 1 dated August 1979, and as you say, in Section 2 "Fuel System," it gives instructions for adjusting the high speed and idle mixture screws, shows a blow-up of the carburetor on p. 2-3 under the head "Disassembly", and instructions on setting the float level upon "Reassembly" (p. 2-4). The float depicted in the blow-up (or exploded view) corresponds to the "early design" shown in pictures I posted earlier; the "curls" are formed in an outward direction and there is no "second tab." I'm not sure if I checked there or not. I had expected to find rebuild instructions with the "kit" I purchased.

I went back and checked the versions and dates for the Kohler Service Manual I referenced earlier, and it notes on the last page that, "This publication replaces ENS-575" and that "Form" TP-2379 was issued 4/90 and revised 11/92. Which leaves open the question of when the float was redesigned: it may have come out well after IH ceased producing tractors. Since the new part replaces the older one, it seems to be backwardly compatible; at least it's working fine in my tractor.

So, I'll stop berating Don for not following the manual, and I'll pay more attention to my sources of information in the future. I still think the new design is an improvement to the older one and I would encourage everyone to consider adopting new design the next time they do a rebuild on a carburetor.
I apologize if I offended anyone with my strident tone; I thought I reminding everyone of existing data (RTFM), when in fact I was introducing new information. (But it still pays to read the manual

)

Now, a question for you: would you consider a carburetor with the "new and updated" float design to be a 100-point restoration, or would a fellow have to test and use an older style float?

 

[lpalma]

Jeremiah,
The early carb repair kits have the correct parts for that 100 point restore as the original baffle in the kit was reinforced with some kind of mesh fabric stuff.

All this mentioning of a 100 point restore...
What are they in numerical order?

 

[dfrisk]

HARRY - My Dad bought a Kohler engine manual, just like the one you can down-load for free on Kohler's website, back around 1968, maybe '69. It's still the manual I use for ALL my engine work. Yes, the parts about the three different charging systems Kohler offered don't apply, or the LP carburators, mixers, & regulators... But I just flip the page and go on.

I have the IH manuals too, but still use the Kohler hard copy for engine work.

Remember... I'm still trying to wear out a 1965 and a 1968 CC.... and not making much progress at it.

 

[rmcshane]

X2 on Denny's comment...I've been using the Kohler service manual since day one of fixing these engines. I'd choose it over the IH manual any day.

 

[mtoney]

Service manuals or a laptop with wireless internet is essential in the shop. Although I do have the Kohler and Onan engine manuals in hardcopy as well as CD. I would rather buzz off a copy from the printer than get my books greasy. I have a small shelf for my netbook mini lap top in the shop, I can use it to referance items as needed. Cheers Mike

 

[vthomley]

David, Schwandt - hold off one more day before you fab up a cab mount piece. My neighbor just dragged home a 1650 roller and it has some bracket just in front of the steering wheel. It looks like a bracket for a cab mount. Tonight I can get a pic of this and if its what you need I'm sure the price will be right...

 

[ljones]

Would it benefit a gear drive to have a hydro rear cover and be filled to the higher level with hytran?

 

[vthomley]

Lucas - I"m not sure why you'd want more Hytran in the rear.....

Think of it this way - your Engine(Cub Cadet , Car any engine) would NOT like having too much oil, so my guess is the rear would be the same.

Also logic tells me these Gear Drives have been using the same level since the Original was made in 1961 so the standard rear plate, and same Hytran so this level works!

Lastly Hytran is NOT cheap - so I really don't want to put any more in that is needed...

These are just my quick random thoughts

 

[hydroharry]

Dennis and Ryan - I really have no issue using the Kohler manual, but it does have alot of information not applicable to a CC unit, and for a 1st time repair by someone finding their way thru a carb, it has to be confusing, especially when the original carb is really quite simple. On the other hand, if you're doing a complete engine it's a must have. I don't think the IH manual has the details on the piston and rods.

Jeremiah - I don't think your post offended anyone. I do think it pays to read the manual. I was actually only adding that even the manuals can get confusing. RTFM doesn't tell the whole story and our site sure helps to clarify things.

Now - for your question on the 100 point restoration. No, the float style would not alter the score. The score is based on visual inspection. There would be no removal of the float bowl to confirm float style, nor would there be head removal to confirm piston, nor removal of the fill plug to taste test for HyTran. The 100 point inspection is more along the lines of paint chip verification of colors, use of correct IH or WP stamped bolts and correct style washers. Exposed wiring color codes, GE numbered light bulbs, correctly numbered rear light lenses, decals having trade-mark copyright "R" (in a circle) and appropriate IH emblem. Just the details like these.

Do-Da: to assist you specifically, you start with 110 points but final score cannot exceed 100. So, you can receive 10 deductions and still score 100. I cannot release the scoring criteria to the general public. It wouldn't be fair for competition. Only judges are allowed to possess copies of the criteria. It is however updated on a bi-annual basis as confirmed discoveries occur. Things like that decal on the heat shield for a 1x6/7 engine with balance gears (the double dipper engine), would be added to the scoring criteria. (Ooh, because the criteria is kept secret the judges often receive many token items of appreciation, but some people think they are bribes).