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Archive through February 18, 2013
- Thread starter jchamberlin
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mfrade
Well-known member
Bill J., I don't think he needed to.. But, I think he did! Now he's talking about the govenor being replaced or needing replacement.. I think Don's grasping for an answer, any one will do, and he decides it must be this or this or this...
I can sympathize with his dilemma, I wish he was right down the street from me as I am oh so curious as to what's causing this problem.
I can sympathize with his dilemma, I wish he was right down the street from me as I am oh so curious as to what's causing this problem.
jchamberlin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2010
- Messages
- 1,842
- Location
- Farmville, North Carolina
- displayname
- Jeremiah Chamberlin
Kurt Smith: A few days ago Dennis Frisk discussed what it would take to install external brakes in a tractor that had internal brakes. He didn't mention having to modify the linkage.
"By Dennis Frisk (Dfrisk) on Saturday, February 16, 2013 - 04:13 pm:
RONALD BERG - A transmission from a 122 should bolt up to your 1200. The rear portion of the frames on the WF & Q/L tractors are all the same as the earlier tractors. All the frame changes for the bigger engines were in the front of the steering column. The problem will be hooking up your brakes. If your 1200 had the linkage for INTERNAL brakes you should be O-K since the 122 rearend had internal brakes too. If your 1200 had external disk brakes on each rear wheel you can install the axle shafts from your 1200 into the 122's axle carriers & rearend and use the external disk brakes and then just back-off the internal brake adjustment. You may also need to swap the gear shift lever and plate from your 1200 onto the rearend because I think the 1200's shift lever was bent different and was longer."
(emphasis added and the spelling of Ronald's last name corrected.)
I'm not sure if this directly addresses your question. Denny, or others, may want to comment further.
Edit: Correction, Denny was talking about installing an axle with internal brakes into a tractor with external brakes, which I believe was your question.
"By Dennis Frisk (Dfrisk) on Saturday, February 16, 2013 - 04:13 pm:
RONALD BERG - A transmission from a 122 should bolt up to your 1200. The rear portion of the frames on the WF & Q/L tractors are all the same as the earlier tractors. All the frame changes for the bigger engines were in the front of the steering column. The problem will be hooking up your brakes. If your 1200 had the linkage for INTERNAL brakes you should be O-K since the 122 rearend had internal brakes too. If your 1200 had external disk brakes on each rear wheel you can install the axle shafts from your 1200 into the 122's axle carriers & rearend and use the external disk brakes and then just back-off the internal brake adjustment. You may also need to swap the gear shift lever and plate from your 1200 onto the rearend because I think the 1200's shift lever was bent different and was longer."
(emphasis added and the spelling of Ronald's last name corrected.)
I'm not sure if this directly addresses your question. Denny, or others, may want to comment further.
Edit: Correction, Denny was talking about installing an axle with internal brakes into a tractor with external brakes, which I believe was your question.
hydroharry
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- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 4,468
- displayname
- Harry Bursell
Mike F and Bill J - ole Don T started posting on the Restor and Refurb thread under "My 125". He has that 12hp all tore apart again. I'm with you Mike in that I wish I could be there and see it and could have gone thru the external stuff again before he tore into it. Unless he posted an old pic he already has the crank out again. I really was still leaning toward either something with the Point Saver (possibly how he had it wired), still a carb issue, possibly the Governor since he adjusted it (did he go the wrong way?), and then even checking the valves to see if they both closed, and then removing the head to actually view them. I think he's got the whole thing back in a 1000 pieces again checking the timing mark alignment on the cam and crank, and checking the keyway on the flywheel. I do still have a sense that one way or another he's gonna get that engine to run again. I did have a neighbor one time I noticed was out in his yard with a 3' sledge hammer, and then I noticed he was pounded away at a small engine - I sorta ran over to see what was going on and he told me if he couldn't get it to run then no one else was gonna. I kinda walked slowly away since it already appeared it was past the point of no return. I think Don is smarter than that - but the frustration has got to be murder.
Harry Bursell
I walked away today from the 125 engine . I thought what might be my issue. and I still think it is timing.I did check my adjustment on the governor rod and when I had the cub engine where it would idle the points were set at 14 as per Charlie. That got it were it would idle but die when I push it to wot.So I did pull the engine and remove the base pan to check if the crank and the cam were timed to speck. I found it is to speck.
That made me think the governor is not working as it is designed. I think it should assist when a load is applied using the throttle. So in the am I will install a metal governor. I used the point saver to find a point setting that would give me a spark at the "S" mark on the flywheel I think 13. I did have that and the engine would back fire through the carb. So I will also check the valve setting also with out removing the head. with the base pan off TDC will be easy to find.I did also check the arc today and don`t see any problems with it. I was getting good compression part of the stroke and I think that is normal.So I have a few things to do in the am.1. check flywheel key 2. install metal governor with washer 3. check valve clearance and reinstall. I did check the Carb float level and used some spray cab cleaner for any dirt and found nothing wrong. I checked the new spark plug I was using by putting it in another Cub and running the engine. It passed the test. I will leave nothing to chance this time .
Stay tuned the 125 saga continues after a brief break (sleep ).
I walked away today from the 125 engine . I thought what might be my issue. and I still think it is timing.I did check my adjustment on the governor rod and when I had the cub engine where it would idle the points were set at 14 as per Charlie. That got it were it would idle but die when I push it to wot.So I did pull the engine and remove the base pan to check if the crank and the cam were timed to speck. I found it is to speck.
That made me think the governor is not working as it is designed. I think it should assist when a load is applied using the throttle. So in the am I will install a metal governor. I used the point saver to find a point setting that would give me a spark at the "S" mark on the flywheel I think 13. I did have that and the engine would back fire through the carb. So I will also check the valve setting also with out removing the head. with the base pan off TDC will be easy to find.I did also check the arc today and don`t see any problems with it. I was getting good compression part of the stroke and I think that is normal.So I have a few things to do in the am.1. check flywheel key 2. install metal governor with washer 3. check valve clearance and reinstall. I did check the Carb float level and used some spray cab cleaner for any dirt and found nothing wrong. I checked the new spark plug I was using by putting it in another Cub and running the engine. It passed the test. I will leave nothing to chance this time .
Stay tuned the 125 saga continues after a brief break (sleep ).
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Marlin,
For every hydro that "gets hot" at a PD there is a clutch that is slipping.....they both have their faults.
I think the "foaming" and "overheated hydros" at PD's are more talk than reality (some of which is perpetuated by these boards). I have been to a lot of PD's (probably plowed close to 40 acres myself over the last 12 years) and have never overheated one of my hydros.......and I don't loaf along when I plow, I use the HP I have and am "into the governor" most of the time.
I've pulled hydros hard enough to kill the engine and slipped gear drive clutches in 2nd on hard pulling ground.........
Best part is....we get to have fun doing it!!!!!
For every hydro that "gets hot" at a PD there is a clutch that is slipping.....they both have their faults.
I think the "foaming" and "overheated hydros" at PD's are more talk than reality (some of which is perpetuated by these boards). I have been to a lot of PD's (probably plowed close to 40 acres myself over the last 12 years) and have never overheated one of my hydros.......and I don't loaf along when I plow, I use the HP I have and am "into the governor" most of the time.
I've pulled hydros hard enough to kill the engine and slipped gear drive clutches in 2nd on hard pulling ground.........
Best part is....we get to have fun doing it!!!!!
mhomrighausen
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- 3,133
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- Marlin Homrighausen
Steve B. I agree with you on that!!!
The Keepsake 1650 does tend to foam and needs a fluid change this spring. The PO apparently put "Green Stuff" oil in it since it also has a JD filter on the 15U. I've finally put enough hours on that tractor to call for an oil change. They had just changed the oil in it when I got it so I didn't think it was necessary to change it since I use it so little. I HOPE to have another engine in Clarence (102) before Rob Dehli's Spring Plow Day so that I finally get to plow with a gear drive. I'm also installing a new clutch so that won't slip on me. I am debating upgrading to a 12 hp engine over the OEM 10 hp though.
We're all gearing up for that big snow storm that is supposed to hit tomorrow. This afternoon, I'm fueling the tractors up.
Everyone have a wonderful and SAFE day.
We're all gearing up for that big snow storm that is supposed to hit tomorrow. This afternoon, I'm fueling the tractors up.
Everyone have a wonderful and SAFE day.
- Joined
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- Home of the Plow Special
Don-
Just to confirm, is this what you saw when you checked the cam/crank timing? (picture on left)
From what I know, I don't think the issue could be anything with the gov. In my opinion, the gov should only control the rotational speed of the engine, not the quality of how it runs.
If you're getting backfiring, then it almost has to be a timing issue. Do you know if the points drive-rod (between the cam and the points) is the correct length and not worn down? Have you tried replacing the coil and condensor with a known-good one? Also, it's a long shot, but maybe you should try bypassing the ignition switch to make sure you're not getting intermittent spark from a bad switch.
Just to confirm, is this what you saw when you checked the cam/crank timing? (picture on left)
From what I know, I don't think the issue could be anything with the gov. In my opinion, the gov should only control the rotational speed of the engine, not the quality of how it runs.
If you're getting backfiring, then it almost has to be a timing issue. Do you know if the points drive-rod (between the cam and the points) is the correct length and not worn down? Have you tried replacing the coil and condensor with a known-good one? Also, it's a long shot, but maybe you should try bypassing the ignition switch to make sure you're not getting intermittent spark from a bad switch.
Art
in the folder of my 125 in the refurbish section you can see a picture of the crank cam timing.I did install a new switch I got from Charlie and change the points with new in the package with a new push rod.I tried three coils and new condensers and the point saver. I did got back and remove the point saver and install a new condenser and still have the issue. I`am headed out to the shop this morning and have another go at it. on this refurbish the only thing that is not new is the wiring harness and I did test every wire 3 times lol. I will be looking at every thing this morning again. I will post what I find later.
in the folder of my 125 in the refurbish section you can see a picture of the crank cam timing.I did install a new switch I got from Charlie and change the points with new in the package with a new push rod.I tried three coils and new condensers and the point saver. I did got back and remove the point saver and install a new condenser and still have the issue. I`am headed out to the shop this morning and have another go at it. on this refurbish the only thing that is not new is the wiring harness and I did test every wire 3 times lol. I will be looking at every thing this morning again. I will post what I find later.
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