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Archive through February 10, 2017
- Thread starter ekincaid
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Forum:
elamott
Well-known member
Kraig:
This is a little late, I haven't been on computer for a while.
Just want to thank you for the info regarding the front clutch slipping. I did not resurface the plates when I rebuilt it. That will be my first thing to do. The button is OK, I checked that. I will check the springs too. I also have extra springs from the rebuild. Thanks again for the comments.
Earl L
This is a little late, I haven't been on computer for a while.
Just want to thank you for the info regarding the front clutch slipping. I did not resurface the plates when I rebuilt it. That will be my first thing to do. The button is OK, I checked that. I will check the springs too. I also have extra springs from the rebuild. Thanks again for the comments.
Earl L
nbextermueller
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- Nic Bextermueller
Ed, This happened to my Off Topic 2072 this past summer. It happened because I let the coupler get too worn. Vibration gradually got worse and I did nothing about it, well knowing what the problem was. Eventually it broke free and looks nearly identical to yours.
It still sits in the shop because it happened on the last mow of the year and I just had a friend finish the lawn.
In my case, I gives me an opportunity to ditch the aluminum case rearend and upgrade to a spare cast iron case I have in the shop. I also happen to have a spare Late-model pump. to make the whole deal go together nicely. I just have to make sure the pinion drive gears are the correct ratio.
So in short, I'm replacing the whole pump. But it's because my collecting (ie. hoarding) of Cub parts gives me a lot of repair parts to play with.
It still sits in the shop because it happened on the last mow of the year and I just had a friend finish the lawn.
In my case, I gives me an opportunity to ditch the aluminum case rearend and upgrade to a spare cast iron case I have in the shop. I also happen to have a spare Late-model pump. to make the whole deal go together nicely. I just have to make sure the pinion drive gears are the correct ratio.
So in short, I'm replacing the whole pump. But it's because my collecting (ie. hoarding) of Cub parts gives me a lot of repair parts to play with.
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Nic C - isn't it about time for you to change your tag line???? I'd guess the 2016 season is over.
mhomrighausen
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- Marlin Homrighausen
Two ways for Ed C. to go about this. As Matt G. stated.... DO NOT trust the broken shaft. Common sense thing. Easier to replace the shaft with a good used one, buy a new one after comparing prices. Parts are still available even though the 15Us were discontinued on 2014. You can find a good used ported pump from the sponsors above, I believe Myron Bounds still sells parts also. His email is in his profile. There are both styles of pumps with very low hours on Cub Cadets that are being parted. I would begin by checking in with our sponsors for a good used one. Greedbay is risky unless you KNOW the seller. A friend that parts Cub Cadets told me that when he gets a ported pump in he gets $100.00 for them. He scraps the non ported even though I've offered to buy them and rebuild them.
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Marlin - gol'dern it, you've making me sound stupid. I take a lot of pride in thinking I have "common sense". I copied and enlarged Ed's pics and I don't think a lot of the shaft is missing. I think it still has it's original length, just chewed off somewhat to almost a point. I'm still thinking there is enough shaft material there that he could still get away using a new coupler and new spirol or coiled spring pin and it would hold up and work.
I will say if Ed could clean things up, remove the broken pin (looks like it may have been standard roll pin or split pin which is why this failed) and get more close up pics we all might see things better.
Ed C - while you're deciding what to do have a read thru some of the FAQ's linked at the top of this page, and also Charlie's FAQ's (at cubfaq.com) that are linked to the link at the top of the page. Look for the ones that talk about Hydro Creep, How do I repair my Trunion, How do I change my Hydro Pump gasket. All of these will give you info about what's involved in removing and replacing your pump. I will add that although the one by Gerry Ide has you split your rearend off the tractor, it's not necessary to do it on a 1650. The pump can be lifted out thru the frame opening where the cover is between your legs when sitting on the tractor (narrow frame tractors don't have this cover opening).
I will say if Ed could clean things up, remove the broken pin (looks like it may have been standard roll pin or split pin which is why this failed) and get more close up pics we all might see things better.
Ed C - while you're deciding what to do have a read thru some of the FAQ's linked at the top of this page, and also Charlie's FAQ's (at cubfaq.com) that are linked to the link at the top of the page. Look for the ones that talk about Hydro Creep, How do I repair my Trunion, How do I change my Hydro Pump gasket. All of these will give you info about what's involved in removing and replacing your pump. I will add that although the one by Gerry Ide has you split your rearend off the tractor, it's not necessary to do it on a 1650. The pump can be lifted out thru the frame opening where the cover is between your legs when sitting on the tractor (narrow frame tractors don't have this cover opening).
mgonitzke
Well-known member
Harry-
I can't believe I've having to 'defend' my position on this. That wear on the input shaft didn't happen overnight and likely contributed to the failure in the first place. There is less material to transfer load from the driveshaft to the hydro unit, and consequently less to keep the coupler coaxial with the input shaft. Would you tell somebody to put a connecting rod back in an engine with part of the dipper broken off?? I have had to fix more stupid stuff bought from people with that sort of perspective than you would believe. My philosophy has always been that if you are going to fix a problem, you are better off both time and money-wise to do it right the first time. If he puts a new coupler on and does nothing else, it is a matter of WHEN, not IF, that it breaks again.
I can't believe I've having to 'defend' my position on this. That wear on the input shaft didn't happen overnight and likely contributed to the failure in the first place. There is less material to transfer load from the driveshaft to the hydro unit, and consequently less to keep the coupler coaxial with the input shaft. Would you tell somebody to put a connecting rod back in an engine with part of the dipper broken off?? I have had to fix more stupid stuff bought from people with that sort of perspective than you would believe. My philosophy has always been that if you are going to fix a problem, you are better off both time and money-wise to do it right the first time. If he puts a new coupler on and does nothing else, it is a matter of WHEN, not IF, that it breaks again.
Ed C,
Ouch! Never have seen a hydro input shaft chewed up like that before. Looking at your hydro pump input shaft it is evident that it got very hot by the discoloration. It looks like a bolt may have come out of the rag joints allowing things to get off center and chewed up your input shaft. I'd look for a used hydro pump with the ports for your lift and swap it out. Also new drive shaft, coupler, rag joints and fan. Check your engine iso-mounts as they may be shot which allows your engine to move around too much causing wear to the driveline couplers/components. Good time to consider the engine cradle mod as well. Check the front driveshaft coupler at the engine as well for damage/wear and replace if required.
Ditto what Matt said. Fix it right and it will last many more years.
Ouch! Never have seen a hydro input shaft chewed up like that before. Looking at your hydro pump input shaft it is evident that it got very hot by the discoloration. It looks like a bolt may have come out of the rag joints allowing things to get off center and chewed up your input shaft. I'd look for a used hydro pump with the ports for your lift and swap it out. Also new drive shaft, coupler, rag joints and fan. Check your engine iso-mounts as they may be shot which allows your engine to move around too much causing wear to the driveline couplers/components. Good time to consider the engine cradle mod as well. Check the front driveshaft coupler at the engine as well for damage/wear and replace if required.
Ditto what Matt said. Fix it right and it will last many more years.
I don't suppose any parts from a non ported pump would be of any use here??
I have several sitting here, two 109's and a 125 that will more than likely wind up at the scrapper one day..
I have several sitting here, two 109's and a 125 that will more than likely wind up at the scrapper one day..
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Matt - I wasn't asking you to "defend" your position, only provide an explanation of why you thought the way you do. You do make some good points and I don't fully dis-agree with you. If Ed had things cleaned up and provided better pics I might be more inclined to agree fully with you. I will say one thing I do mostly agree with you - that if he does just replace the coupler it's probably a matter when not if it will fail again (but that when could be 10-20 years and if it is well then it was a pretty good fix to begin with). It's just one of those things I wish I was right there and could see this pump shaft up close and make recommendations.
I see Ron S mentions a bolt may have come out of the rag joint. I'm not seeing that. It looks to me more like a standard roll or split pin was used to connect the input shaft and coupler and the roll pin snapped, the coupler twisted on the rag joint, cracked a piece out of it and tore up the end of the shaft. It's hard to really say how it happened for certain.
I will say there are a lot of used dual port hydro pumps available out there. If Ed could find one with good trunion or good repaired trunion, for say $50-100 I'd go that route rather than just replace the coupler.
I guess I relate the "right fix" to the "right cost".
And by the way, I was talking with a guy the other day that said he would weld part of a dipper back onto a rod and use it - and he is an excellent mechanic, built race car engines, rebuilt lots of small engines, etc.
David S - it's interesting, when I checked the parts list it shows the same part number for the main shaft used on a 109 as used on a 1650. Then I looked at the shaft price:
$447.96
You might want to keep the non-ported pumps on a top shelf out of site but not out of mind.
I see Ron S mentions a bolt may have come out of the rag joint. I'm not seeing that. It looks to me more like a standard roll or split pin was used to connect the input shaft and coupler and the roll pin snapped, the coupler twisted on the rag joint, cracked a piece out of it and tore up the end of the shaft. It's hard to really say how it happened for certain.
I will say there are a lot of used dual port hydro pumps available out there. If Ed could find one with good trunion or good repaired trunion, for say $50-100 I'd go that route rather than just replace the coupler.
I guess I relate the "right fix" to the "right cost".
And by the way, I was talking with a guy the other day that said he would weld part of a dipper back onto a rod and use it - and he is an excellent mechanic, built race car engines, rebuilt lots of small engines, etc.
David S - it's interesting, when I checked the parts list it shows the same part number for the main shaft used on a 109 as used on a 1650. Then I looked at the shaft price:
$447.96
You might want to keep the non-ported pumps on a top shelf out of site but not out of mind.
Could you clear up something for a newbie what's the difference between a "ported"and "non-ported"hydro trans and what's the interchangeability between these parts if there are any?????????This would help me understand Eds total problem and what to look for in potential problems in the future with my 125
mfrade
Well-known member
Ed C., I have a pump sitting and doing nothing.
If it matches and you can use it. You can have it.
If it matches and you can use it. You can have it.
hydroharry
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- Jul 22, 2007
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- Harry Bursell
Ethan - "CL tractors" you lost me with that term
Mike - that pump ain't sittin doing nothing. It's collecting dust
Mike - that pump ain't sittin doing nothing. It's collecting dust
jwiggins
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- Apr 25, 2016
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- 749
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- Jason Wiggins
I found his Youtube video!
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
